7.0 Tank Wishlist

[J-Reyno]

I used to think this way, but tbh they should do the opposite, they should bring all the tanks down to DRK levels of sustain.

Sure hope not, personally. The sustain upgrades were pretty popular with tanks and it didn't upset balance within the role. DRK showed us that damage is still king of all kings.

[Supersnow845]

Sure hope not, personally. The sustain upgrades were pretty popular with tanks and it didn't upset balance within the role. DRK showed us that damage is still king of all kings.

That’s the problem it did upset the internal tank role balance (IE the WAR is best at everything problem) but worse it decimated the healer balance because tanks are too concerned with internal balance to care that the upgrades they keep demanding are literally shoving healers further and further into irrelevancy

You don’t get to delete another third of the trinity for your power fantasy

Would it? At most you might get some more goodbye-world tier strats that involves the PLD using hallowed then ressing a healer, but that honestly sounds like a pain in the ass to do. And even then, lately fights have been designed with failiure attacks in them that bypass invuln so I REALLy can't see that happening.
Given how okay the devs are with Holmgang warping fights around WAR, I can't really see this being much of an issue.

The ability to see further ahead in a fight cannot be overestimated

All you would have to do is hold hallowed, when it’s obvious you are going to fail the mechanic have the PLD use hallowed then rezz the healer then plod along seeing the timeline till the next body check. It would totally decimate the design of progging savage and ultimate

The only way to stop it would be to make literally every body check go through invulns which has its own problems

This is also ignoring how much it would facilitate “goodbye world” style healer LB3 cheeses to just ignore incredibly difficult mechanics

Healer is already incredibly unpopular

Also how is it a solution to an unpopular role that suffers from other roles superseding it to give the role that constantly supersedes it more of its kit

[Oizen]

That’s the problem it did upset the internal tank role balance (IE the WAR is best at everything problem) but worse it decimated the healer balance because tanks are too concerned with internal balance to care that the upgrades they keep demanding are literally shoving healers further and further into irrelevancy

Kinda? I agree that was the end result but I don't recall tank players asking to decimate the healer role, the devs decided to do that. They've been trying to make healer as stress-free as possible to play so they pushed all that power onto the tanks.

The devs balance by their favorite jobs first and no one there plays healer, and it shows.

The only way to stop it would be to make literally every body check go through invulns which has its own problems

Basically every body check in recent memory is already doing this.

Also how is it a solution to an unpopular role that suffers from other roles superseding it to give the role that constantly supersedes it more of its kit

Well personally I think offloading healer responsibilities onto other jobs across the board and making healers have a more interesting damage rotation is the way to go. Given this is less of a vision and more of the reason I refuse to play them.

[Supersnow845]

Kinda? I agree that was the end result but I don't recall tank players asking to decimate the healer role, the devs decided to do that. They've been trying to make healer as stress-free as possible to play so they pushed all that power onto the tanks.

The devs balance by their favorite jobs first and no one there plays healer, and it shows.



Basically every body check in recent memory is already doing this.


Well personally I think offloading healer responsibilities onto other jobs across the board and making healers have a more interesting damage rotation is the way to go. Given this is less of a vision and more of the reason I refuse to play them.

I mean you have tank players in this thread right now saying DRK is the weak one and it should have its sustain buffed rather than nerfing WAR and PLD. Tank mains 100% contribute to the “my role should be all three roles in one i dont care how badly it affects everyone else” given that’s been the entire collective tank playerbase mindset for EW

Body checks for failed mechanics due to dead people rarely go through invulns unless they induce magic vuln ups, just taking 4 or 5 hits because the mechanic blows up when someone dies doesn’t kill a tank with an invuln, hell half tje time it doesn’t even kill the tank without an invuln

That just makes them gimped casters, should we just buff everyone’s defence so anyone can be MT then call tanks melee DPS

[GoatOfWar]

I mean you have tank players in this thread right now saying DRK is the weak one and it should have its sustain buffed rather than nerfing WAR and PLD. Tank mains 100% contribute to the “my role should be all three roles in one i dont care how badly it affects everyone else” given that’s been the entire collective tank playerbase mindset for EW

Body checks for failed mechanics due to dead people rarely go through invulns unless they induce magic vuln ups, just taking 4 or 5 hits because the mechanic blows up when someone dies doesn’t kill a tank with an invuln, hell half tje time it doesn’t even kill the tank without an invuln

That just makes them gimped casters, should we just buff everyone’s defence so anyone can be MT then call tanks melee DPS

A large part of this is also people tend to be adverse towards nerfs. So it's in their best interest to ask for Drk buffs or reworks, even if it isn't necessarily the best solution to the problem.
It's a song and dance i've seen so, so, so many times in other games as well. (Hello, Overwatch supports) The goal isn't to make sure there will be instances where you want another tank over War. It's just to avoid having their job nerfed.
Because if Drk does end up getting reworked, there's only really one of 2 outcomes; Either Dark knight finds a niche again and then the War players get mad til they get buffed again.
Or, Drk gets reworked and remains shit by comparison. And then they'll say it needs to be reworked/buffed again. When it's War that choked out every niche from the tank roster.
I definitely agree that the other tanks need to come back down. But to be honest, i don't see it happen in the long run.

[J-Reyno]

That’s the problem it did upset the internal tank role balance (IE the WAR is best at everything problem)

Nah, sustain has not caused any balance issues for tanks. I mean WAR is definitely the dev favorite but it's not like the other tanks are suffering. Last I checked DRK is still the most popular raid tank.

worse it decimated the healer balance because tanks are too concerned with internal balance to care that the upgrades they keep demanding are literally shoving healers further and further into irrelevancy

You don’t get to delete another third of the trinity for your power fantasy

Well the good news is that the healer role hasn't been deleted. No one, and I do mean actually no one at all, is rejecting healers from groups because a few people completed a no-healer challenge run.

[Supersnow845]

Nah, sustain has not caused any balance issues for tanks. I mean WAR is definitely the dev favorite but it's not like the other tanks are suffering. Last I checked DRK is still the most popular raid tank.


Well the good news is that the healer role hasn't been deleted. No one, and I do mean actually no one at all, is rejecting healers from groups because a few people completed a no-healer challenge run.

Sustain has caused issues for tank balance because WAR is literally the best at absolutely everything right now with zero downsides. Just because bringing another tank isn’t an active hinderance doesn’t mean that it isn’t a balance problem. WAR is the most popular raid tank and it’s also the strongest raid tank

And there is a large gulf between having your role done by another role and being actively excluded

A WAR in single target that presses bloodwhetting twice per minute self heals as much as a WHM pressing afflatus solace 6 times (remember WHM gets 3 lilys per minute)

The tanks are so far off balance in their encroachment of the healer role and if your yardstick for “balanced” means “well the healers aren’t getting actively excluded from savage” then you obviously have literally zero care for anything besides how powerful your own role is

[Luluya]

Not sure if its been mentioned but I think PLD should get an upgrade to Circle of Scorn that replaces it with Uriel Blade/something similar (a PLD-esque skill from FFXI that shares the lightbeam aoe vfx of circle of scorn *except* the character also leaps and glowy angel wings appear briefly on them)

[J-Reyno]

Sustain has caused issues for tank balance because WAR is literally the best at absolutely everything right now with zero downsides

If WAR were the best tank at everything, that wouldn't be a sustain issue. That'd be an issue of WAR being given the best of everything. WAR and PLD having much more sustain didn't stop DRK from being the most desired tank for savage. WAR later receiving compensatory buffs for not being the absolute best is just business as usual.

if your yardstick for “balanced” means “well the healers aren’t getting actively excluded from savage” then you obviously have literally zero care for anything besides how powerful your own role is

That's not my yardstick for balanced, that's my answer to hysterical claims that an entire role has been removed from the game.

Now if your yardstick for role balance is "well one time these guys didn't use a healer so clearly the role is GONE" or comparing one WHM heal of many to one WAR heal of few while ALSO thinking that WHM should do the same damage with glare as a tank using a full damage rotation?

I mean we're just not gonna agree on some things.

[Supersnow845]

If WAR were the best tank at everything, that wouldn't be a sustain issue. That'd be an issue of WAR being given the best of everything. WAR and PLD having much more sustain didn't stop DRK from being the most desired tank for savage. WAR later receiving compensatory buffs for not being the absolute best is just business as usual.


That's not my yardstick for balanced, that's my answer to hysterical claims that an entire role has been removed from the game.

Now if your yardstick for role balance is "well one time these guys didn't use a healer so clearly the role is GONE" or comparing one WHM heal of many to one WAR heal of few while ALSO thinking that WHM should do the same damage with glare as a tank using a full damage rotation?

I mean we're just not gonna agree on some things.

I mean WAR is literally the best at everything right now (well second to GNB for damage but since you have 2 tanks anyway it doesn’t matter) DRK only passes it in hyper optimised groups that specifically use a DNC to buff its two minute window which is incredibly niche. Otherwise it used to be DRK for damage WAR for sustain, now WAR just gets both

And I don’t mean healers habe literally been removed from the game, I mean tanks have all but superseded the need for healers in casual content and the need for single target tank healing in savage

What if you got a WHM and their holy just infinitely stunned the mobs, or kardia healed you for 1000 potency per hit so you never had to mitigate outside of a TB, having another role so your job for you simply isn’t fun at all