Easiest solution to the gil-farm/FC-house hoarding situation

[WinglessSeraphim]

Do you really think that people will just give up their FC houses just because they can't earn a profit from salvage anymore?

[Asako]

There's so many free housing plots for FCs that I don't see a reason to shit up the game just because you can't get that specific plot you wanted. Seriously they turned the ward where my private house is into an FC only ward and now plot after plot are expiring with no one interested in them.

Same, in both my FC's ward and my alt FC's ward on Lich it's just empty plots everywhere. If people want a house just go out and get them. Private houses I can understand. The problem is just that accounts are allowed to own multiple plots. 1 plot per either account or Data Center and you will free up a load of houses. Workshop is perfectly fine as is.

[Nyxs]

Do you really think that people will just give up their FC houses just because they can't earn a profit from salvage anymore?

Alot of the sub houses dont even have decorations. Just a crystal to teleport. If they didn’t need the house then yes they would as why wouldn’t they just let it demolish to get gil back if they dont need it anymore.

[Brynne]

Detach the workshop from housing so a FC doesn't have to purchase a house to get a workshop.

Yes, I'm in strong agreement with this, and don't know why they haven't done it already. You can even still leave the workshop entry in the house, just add another entry point at like Cid's workshop in Mor Dhona or the Grand Company associated with the FC, or wherever. I think this would free up a little bit of housing - not a whole lot, mind, but at least it would be a start.

[WinglessSeraphim]

Alot of the sub houses dont even have decorations. Just a crystal to teleport. If they didn’t need the house then yes they would as why wouldn’t they just let it demolish to get gil back if they dont need it anymore.

I've seen loads of personals with no decorations. Should they be taken away? What if you don't like what they put out if they did decorate? Would you also want it taken away?

How do you even know when a house is a sub house anyway? You're just making assumptions based on pearl clutching.

[Jojoya]

There's so many free housing plots for FCs that I don't see a reason to shit up the game just because you can't get that specific plot you wanted. Seriously they turned the ward where my private house is into an FC only ward and now plot after plot are expiring with no one interested in them.

The problem that we're going to face as Dawntrail is released is the number of houses available to individual buyers is impacted by the number of wards that are reserved only for FCs.

Every expansion launch we've watched all housing plots fill up on the NA and EU worlds as players return to the game and new ones start playing. Dawntrail launch has the potential for the problem to be even greater than in the past considering the higher expected player population and some wards being reserved for FCs only.

If the desirability of running a workshop to make gil was reduced, some of the wards currently reserved for FCs or mixed could potentially be made individual buyer only.

Detach the workshop from housing -- Though this would result in numerous other problems that absolutely would need to be addressed, e.g., reward distribution, reward amount, and the minimum needed entry point. These are all issues which can quickly creep up with detachment from housing.

Detaching the workshop from housing shouldn't require a change to any of those things.

Entry point could remain what it already effectively is since it's gated by house ownership, i.e. FC must be Rank 6. Or changing the purchase price of a workshop from gil to Company Credits creates a new entry point (can't get a workshop until enough credits are accumulated).

Getting 500k Company Credits isn't difficult for a small but active FC. Removing Expert Delivery as a source of Company Credits would make it a little more time consuming but not prohibitively so. Most FCs with a few active members (even low level) get sufficient Company Credits to run actions when members are online and also to purchase fuel (which has a trivial cost right now). Larger FCs overflow with credits.

I agree with reworking how Company Credits are earned. It's something I've wanted for a long time because the system currently favors crafting/gathering activities over things like MSQ and group content. I don't think they should be based on "FC content" because that doesn't really exist outside of the workshop. Group content should get the emphasis, whether the player is running content with their FC, with friends or with random players.

OK I get now what's confusing - I assume house hoarders will just drop their shell FC house if they cannot essentially profit from it. I just made that assumption without being clear about it.

Those who are house hoarders usually aren't the same as the ones running the sub farms.

House hoarders will keep their houses because that's what they're after - the house. There's no cost to keeping a house outside of maintaining a subscription so they can walk into the house once every 45 days.

The current sub farmers might drop some of their workshops because of the extra effort to maintain but they wouldn't drop all of them. SE won't take all the profit out of workshops. The best we could hope for is that they remove Salvaged Accessories, which is reliable profit with no market competition required. The remaining loot can remain since its value will vary based on market supply so it will take more active effort to maintain profits.

The idea should be to deter players from acquiring multiple of a limited resource that they won't be actively using so that other players who would actively use it would have easier access. The sub farms aren't really using all of their houses but they have to have the house to get the workshop.

Put the workshop elsewhere and they no longer need the house. The player would no doubt still get a house or two if they enjoy housing but they would no longer need to have 20-30 houses.

If you're adamant on this affecting legit FCs, then the only thing that ultimately needs to change is that the Aetherial Wheel Stands should not be tied to housing -- Even if an alternate exists in company credits. -- But to continue... Detach Atherial Wheel Stands from housing, have each city state have a small workshop of sorts that people can visit which contains all the necessities. Then decrease the charge time of company buffs across the board, so that people can get these more self sufficiently..

Putting the wheel stands into the workshop would make sense though I wonder how many FCs even know what the wheel stands do anymore, let alone actually use them.

I think once Grade 2 actions could be purchased with Company Credits, the wheels became irrelevant to most FCs. Priming the Grade 3 wheels is a bit of a headache considering you can only do one at a time and they take 3 days to charge. That's actually another piece of FC content that could use an update.

Yes, realistic progress since Expert Delivery currently helps smaller FCs achieve larger gains that they couldn't in comparison to large hundred person+ FCs with people on round the clock.

If the only people who can make realistic progress with credits are large FCs then that screws out:
- Friend group FCs
- Venue FCs
- Static FCs
- Legitimate new FCs

So yes, in my opinion, there should be a way for those to be able to keep pace.

Friend group FCs shouldn't be impacted in any significant way since they'd still be doing other content that generates credits.

Venue FCs shouldn't need the company credits.

Static FCs would be same as friend group FCs - doing enough other content to be generating sufficient credits.

Legitimate new FCs are rarely relying on Expert Deliveries for Company Credits because their members usually don't have access to Expert Deliveries and/or are still doing low level content so the number of credits they would get from turning in gear is likewise very low. They're getting most of their credits from simple quest completion.

Why would credit acquisition need to be nerfed in the first place? There is no reason to change how active fcs need to be. Credits have uses that have nothing to do with submarines. If the devs wanted to nerf submarine gil making all they would have to do is reduce salvage value to 1% of its current value.

Sure, they can be used to purchase FC actions if the FC doesn't have a house or has a house but doesn't want to charge the action wheels.

But what else do FC tend to use the credits for? Just the airships/subs. Voidrake and Althyk Lavender seeds on rare occasions but those can also be purchased with GC seals when they're not obtained through the workshop voyages. There are also a few housing items but those tend to flood the marketboard cheap (when tradeable) because there is nothing else to spend excess credits on.

Credits are too easy to come by with little worthwhile to spend them on. Normal FCs aren't going to feel the loss of Expert Deliveries as a source in the long run. It's the solo player FCs that will mainly feel the loss, especially if the player is running multiple workshops instead of just one. A single workshop isn't that hard for a solo player to maintain as long as they are actively playing other content in addition to the workshop.

[Kuroka]

Alot of the sub houses dont even have decorations. Just a crystal to teleport. If they didn’t need the house then yes they would as why wouldn’t they just let it demolish to get gil back if they dont need it anymore.

Yeah some of the houses near me became such shells... 4-5 ppl at max, one leveled, everything closed with 0 items in their garden and the default skin they bought the house with - some dont even have the teleport.

Id wished theyd at least fill the garden and change the skin...

[Kaurhz]

Detaching the workshop from housing shouldn't require a change to any of those things.

Entry point could remain what it already effectively is since it's gated by house ownership, i.e. FC must be Rank 6. Or changing the purchase price of a workshop from gil to Company Credits creates a new entry point (can't get a workshop until enough credits are accumulated).

Initially they may or may not need to, but you do need to consider that detaching it from housing resolves some housing problems in a shape or form, but it does equally make submarine hoarding a lot more accessible to many players, so the economy is absolutely something they would need to keep an eye on it. -- Whilst it isn't as bad as coffee biscuits, it absolutely can devolve that way with the housing aspect being removed.

I am not speaking as much on the entry point for submarines itself as much as I am talking about the entry point for essentially printing Gil from them. It remains very much accessible if you can get over the hurdle with levelling it. Perhaps I need to look at it relative to most players since I do also have a pretty big tolerance for grinding in the first place.

If I had to say, I personally wouldn't go for purchasing a workshop with Gil, but rather put it on company credits for purchasing the workshop. I'm sorry if people think this harms the small FCs, but I absolutely disagree that it does, and this is a hill that I absolutely will die on. Arguably having them in as much abundance as what they are already in some shape harms FCs. I remember organizing with a bunch of guild mates way back when to work on farming company credits when it wasn't in abundance like it is now... -- What did I do when I wanted to re-establish a small FC? Yes, I am staring profusely at Facet and Classical Rings as I write this statement.

I do absolutely agree on everything else though. Especially Company credit needs to be more weighted towards the combat and group activity than it does for crafting and gathering.

[Arzalis]

The system is just bad. Even if they removed every shell FC and demolished all the associated houses, you're still extremely unlikely to get one.

Shell FCs are just another boogeyman.

[Aneshda]

Ah just another Thread where someone got rich through Submarines and can't stand it that other Players might get some Gil too. Wonder why OP cares so much about others and what they do?