because of duty support is slightly more difficult content even possible?

[TaleraRistain]

You don't do the dungeons with trusts but you're somehow making generalizations on what they can and can't do? They can do some pretty sophisticated things. The dungeons weren't dumbed down. They were modified to be more intuitive for new players so they didn't have to try to interpret many of the archaic and vague triggers they used to contain. Also to introduce some of those indicators earlier so sprouts would be familiar with them in future content.

[Azlith]

The dungeons weren't dumbed down. They were modified to be more intuitive for new players so they didn't have to try to interpret many of the archaic and vague triggers they used to contain.

It can be argued that making something more intuitive is, by virtue of it being easier to understand, "dumbing down". If you no longer need to learn through trial and error and instead have giant orange circles of death appear for every mechanic then yes things have been "dumbed down"

[TaleraRistain]

It can be argued that making something more intuitive is, by virtue of it being easier to understand, "dumbing down". If you no longer need to learn through trial and error and instead have giant orange circles of death appear for every mechanic then yes things have been "dumbed down"

Have you done the Rhitahtyn instance? There are plenty of things telegraphed in more familiar ways there and that instance is definitely not dumbed down. It has teeth.

[Azlith]

Have you done the Rhitahtyn instance? There are plenty of things telegraphed in more familiar ways there and that instance is definitely not dumbed down. It has teeth.

I don't think you understood my post. I wasn't making an argument for whether or not some specific thing in the game was made to be easier or harder with the reworks for the trust system. I also agree that the trust system didn't always make things easier. I was simply stating that if you make something more intuitive then it has been, by nature, "dumbed down". Side note, have you done keeper of the lake since the rework? that was made considerably easier to read and therefore a lot easier to know what to do. For every bit of content that was made "harder" or just as difficult by the rework there is another bit of content that was made considerably easier. I'm not saying this is a good or bad thing in general, it is simply an observation and it just is what it is.

[TaleraRistain]

I don't think you understood my post. I wasn't making an argument for whether or not some specific thing in the game was made to be easier or harder with the reworks for the trust system. I also agree that the trust system didn't always make things easier. I was simply stating that if you make something more intuitive then it has been, by nature, "dumbed down". Side note, have you done keeper of the lake since the rework? that was made considerably easier to read and therefore a lot easier to know what to do. For every bit of content that was made "harder" or just as difficult by the rework there is another bit of content that was made considerably easier. I'm not saying this is a good or bad thing in general, it is simply an observation and it just is what it is.

I've been doing them all since I have a Dynamis alt and in level-appropriate gear. There are some points of Keeper that were much more obvious before. You used to get large orange line AoEs that you had to dodge. Now you get the dragons on the side with an arrow that is intuitive but expects more from you than the original line outlining exactly where to go. And Rhitahtyn's mechanics were also overhauled and the new mechanics are intuitive and recognizable and still a challenge to actually pull off.

[tsuchii]

I feel like the people who claim everything is "too easy" are people who have done the duties over and over. Normal content is not "too easy" - I think there's some form of difficulty in them in your first play through.

There should just be another layer of difficulty to cater to the "midcore players". That is what I hope for. A suggestion would be adding a difficulty between normal and extreme/savage with more challenging, more fun, higher replayability.

[Merrigan]

I feel like the people who claim everything is "too easy" are people who have done the duties over and over. Normal content is not "too easy" - I think there's some form of difficulty in them in your first play through.

There should just be another layer of difficulty to cater to the "midcore players". That is what I hope for. A suggestion would be adding a difficulty between normal and extreme/savage with more challenging, more fun, higher replayability.

Thank you for this. Most of the people on the forums, or so it seems to me, are players who have been here a long time. I'm one of them. And as old players, we tend to forget what a dungeon represents for newcomers, and all those who in general are not regular players at all. There are those who have simply forgotten; those whose memory is a little selective (“bof, in one go I understood X dungeon” < a player who isn't necessarily lying... but forgets to mention that he had played three other mmorpg before)... and those who refuse to admit that their pace of play is the primary factor in the ease they blame on lambda content.

mmorpg players have always been more or less bulimic, but lately this has been taken to a rather remarkable extreme. Players who gobble up narrative content in a few days because they've taken days off for the release... Then complain that there's nothing left to do (?!). People who play almost daily, then complain that they find the lambda content easy (obviously, this is your umpteenth time in this dungeon! It would be surprising if you didn't find it easy, really). Even games like Darksouls and Sekiro are considered easy by some players, for the record.

So no, please don't touch normal content, at least when it comes to dungeons which are necessary for the narrative. That being said, we could imagine a system where the facultative instances, those who aren't necessary to progress in the story, would be more complicated. There are no barriers for those, since they don't block the player who just want to enjoy the story.

[tsuchii]

Thank you for this. Most of the people on the forums, or so it seems to me, are players who have been here a long time. I'm one of them. And as old players, we tend to forget what a dungeon represents for newcomers, and all those who in general are not regular players at all. There are those who have simply forgotten; those whose memory is a little selective (“bof, in one go I understood X dungeon” < a player who isn't necessarily lying... but forgets to mention that he had played three other mmorpg before)... and those who refuse to admit that their pace of play is the primary factor in the ease they blame on lambda content.

mmorpg players have always been more or less bulimic, but lately this has been taken to a rather remarkable extreme. Players who gobble up narrative content in a few days because they've taken days off for the release... Then complain that there's nothing left to do (?!). People who play almost daily, then complain that they find the lambda content easy (obviously, this is your umpteenth time in this dungeon! It would be surprising if you didn't find it easy, really). Even games like Darksouls and Sekiro are considered easy by some players, for the record.

So no, please don't touch normal content, at least when it comes to dungeons which are necessary for the narrative. That being said, we could imagine a system where the facultative instances, those who aren't necessary to progress in the story, would be more complicated. There are no barriers for those, since they don't block the player who just want to enjoy the story.

Yea. It's not really exclusively for the casual. I have realllly casual friends who struggled with EW normal content. And even duty finder can sometimes struggle with roulette duties.
I sound repetitive but what we really need are challenging, higher difficulty options with higher replayability. Eg. some duties with really punishing heal or dps requirements or high mitigation requirements. Things that pose great challenge but not necessarily too gimmicky like savage/extreme.

"Difficult" doesnt always have to be the ultra-complicated savage mechanics we keep on getting. I really dislike the bodycount mechanics this expansion. People should be able to "carry" or "salvage" a run if just 1 person is making the mistake.

edit: spelling

[Moqi]

I feel like the people who claim everything is "too easy" are people who have done the duties over and over. Normal content is not "too easy" - I think there's some form of difficulty in them in your first play through.

I have just finished Shadowbringer, blind. Did dungeons with trusts and Dark Knight and w2w everything (except Gulg lol, I knew its fame but still wasn't prepared), did all trials blind as well. They were incredibly easy. Role quests were a joke too.