Give Warrior the Dark Knight treatment in regards to Bloodwhetting

[Supersnow845]

I dont think they are going to touch WAR. They are more likely to give DRK a small heal and call the tanks balanced. The problem is tanks received alot of sustain based on healers. Healers didnt want to spend a GCD on a heal to get the tank up so they said they will make it easier and give tanks more healing.

Ultimately it will come down how they do the healers this expansion to determine what they do for tank self sustain.

Their entire design philosophy on healers pushed them this way because in their attempt to make healers easier all they have done is discouraged GCD healing by stuffing so much potency in the nuke

Imagine if you as the tank had to lose goring blade/primal rend/blasting zone/shadowbringer every time you used rampart. Because of how maim and mend works that’s about how much the healer nukes are worth

They need to diversify healer DPS actions so GCD healing isn’t so punishing. Saying “poor tanks were dying because the healers are selfish” ignores everything about how the current design punishes healers on every front

[GoatOfWar]

Again for the 8301959106106@3&2th time a 1600 potency heal every 25 seconds, a 1500 potency heal on top of that every 60, an oGCD shield stronger than any healer oGCD shield that also gets a heal and a regen and a single target heal amplifier that works on your own heals is not “balanced in savage” it’s just not so hilariously broken that it’s causing as much of an outcry as the casual equivalent

At this point single target healing on the healers is downright useless, I can take tetra, bension and aquaveil off my bar and basically nothing about how WHM plays in savage changes, same for lustrate, excog, ED, CI and exaltation

SIO and holmgang are too powerful collectively, SIO is literally the best mitigation and is the only one that has 2 extra effects, self healing on WAR (and PLD) is too strong that it’s warping the healers kits, it’s not balanced from any other perspective than tank mains wanting to be overpowered

Yeah, agreed.
It doesn't completely trivialise high end content, but that's not the bar to something being overpowered.
Tank sustain needs to come down.

[Lyth]

I wonder if part of the solution is in WAR thematically going back to its roots as a high HP pool tank. I remember part of the fun back in ARR and HW was in seeing how high you could push your HP totals with stacked buff effects. You could have effects that let you 'overheal' for temporary HP to boost your maximum (Bloodwhetting, Shake it Off), and have effects that consume all your temporary HP (Equilibrium), healing you in proportion to the difference between maximum HP and current HP. If you did this, you wouldn't need additional barriers, regens, or heals, because you'd be able to generate equivalent effects by manipulating your HP total situationally. You'd also have pretty good synergy with Holmgang, because that would be the ideal time to cash in your temporary HP.

Rather than looking at the negatives of losing passive regens and on demand heals, does it not make more sense to develop a more interesting set of gameplay mechanics that supports a more equitable design? Personally, I'd like to see all the tanks developed along more individualized mechanics.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

And they just happily based balancing around the people who say "Hey, I don't want to do the main role that I signed up for"?

Jokes on you, that’s because the dev themselves came from that camp of players.:v

/s

[aiqa]

I dont think they are going to touch WAR. They are more likely to give DRK a small heal and call the tanks balanced. The problem is tanks received alot of sustain based on healers. Healers didnt want to spend a GCD on a heal to get the tank up so they said they will make it easier and give tanks more healing.

Ultimately it will come down how they do the healers this expansion to determine what they do for tank self sustain.

So because healer (and everyone else) doesn't want to spend GCD on anything else but damage, they give more ogcd healing to tanks. I don't see the cause and effect there. They could have just buffed the ogcd single target healing from healers.

Try making defensive abilities on tanks GCD, and see how much complaining that gets you. By your logic that would be a a reason to give DPS jobs more ogcd defensive abilities.

[Moqi]

What you're missing is that most players are bad at the game and if you powered up oCGDs you wouldn't solve the problem because half the WHM are spamming Medica II at full HP before the fight even start. They don't know how to use or time oCGDs effectively.

[Supersnow845]

What you're missing is that most players are bad at the game and if you powered up oCGDs you wouldn't solve the problem because half the WHM are spamming Medica II at full HP before the fight even start. They don't know how to use or time oCGDs effectively.

Tanks are also pretty universally terrible at this game but they don’t get punished, they just get buffed so damn hard that they physically can’t fail no matter how much they try to fail

Think of bloodwhetting, 4 benedictions and mitigation for pressing literally 1 button and you cannot press it at the wrong time if healers got a CD even half as strong it’d be a lot easier for medica 2 spammers to do more damage, imagine if holy’s stun didn’t fall off, no need to heal when I just drop the enemies from ever doing damage

[aiqa]

Going along for a moment with the idea SE balances classes with considerations about "what if a healer is bad". Why is that a reason to give the additional ogcd healing to tanks? Are those inherently better players? As a healer I had to babysit countless tanks with questionable use of mitigation and selfhealing. Why didn't dps jobs get that extra healing to cover all those terrible single point of failure healers. And why does all the tank healing (besides clemency) need to be ogcd? If it's just to cover bad healers, some gcd healing would be enough.

And tanks are by far the biggest single point of failure at the moment. To avoid all those bad tanks ruining stuff, we surely need healers and dps classes with similar damage mitigation and threat, right?

[Absurdity]

Going along for a moment with the idea SE balances classes with considerations about "what if a healer is bad". Why is that a reason to give the additional ogcd to tanks? Are those inherently better players? As a healer I had to babysit countless tanks with questionable use of mitigation and selfhealing. Why didn't dps jobs get that extra healing to cover all those terrible single point of failure healers.

And tanks are by far the biggest single point of failure at the moment. To avoid all those bad tanks ruining stuff, we surely need healers and dps classes with similar damage mitigation and threat, right?

My assumption is that they think that pressing oGCDs between GCDs comes more naturally to people playing melee, also helps that melee GCDs are (almost) all instant.
But I have seen a similar phenomenon with people playing XIV for the first time, they don't "weave" oGCDs, they press their GCD, wait for the lockout timer to finish and then press their oGCD.

And they have put training wheels on tanks, just in a different way. They removed all responsibility from them besides not dying, and even that has become easier than ever before.

[aiqa]

My assumption is that they think that pressing oGCDs between GCDs comes more naturally to people playing melee, also helps that melee GCDs are (almost) all instant.
But I have seen a similar phenomenon with people playing XIV for the first time, they don't "weave" oGCDs, they press their GCD, wait for the lockout timer to finish and then press their oGCD.

And they have put training wheels on tanks, just in a different way. They removed all responsibility from them besides not dying, and even that has become easier than ever before.

By that logic they could also give all healers a bunch of Assize type abilities with a lower cooldown. That would get use naturally while optimizing dps too. So that is still no reason to push that all on tanks.