Give Warrior the Dark Knight treatment in regards to Bloodwhetting

[Ramiee]

I like that warrior is the life steal tank but yeah it's kinda ridiculous at this point. The life steal is just too good and the fact parsers cry over damage not being equal has just kinda made GNB and DRK worthless and PLD is just a good co tank in high end content but in any normal content everyone just wants a WAR.

[Avoidy]

For context, I currently play AST and I regularly play WHM and SCH. When I tank, I do play Warrior. I have all my jobs maxed, but yeah. I stick to healing a lot. And even with that background, it's so weird to hear people in this thread say that warrior's fun skill should be gutted because it's busted in dungeons and making healers obsolete. Lots of jobs become busted when their skills are applied to packs of enemies. It's not warrior's fault that healing casual content is so gutted and devoid of fun that nobody wants to play them and the devs are terrified of making any content with high outgoing damage. You want healers to be necessary in low end content? Rather than nerf warrior's fun casual kit, just make the content actually threatening. Hell, all you'd need to do... if your goal wasn't even "fun" or whatever but just to force players to include healers again, all you'd really genuinely need to do is have the first boss apply a cleansable unavoidable doom to everyone in the group. The solution to preventing this mess is so simple, but they haven't done it in a single dungeon for this entire expansion because they probably realize that most normal people don't care when trivial content gets trivialized, or they're fine with dungeons (of all the things for people to get caught up over lmao) being easy because they know most of dutyfinder is crap anyway and can't handle basic stuff.

Hell, the only people I know who even do 3dps/1tank are premade groups of friends anyway. If I were ever in the mood to go heal a level 90 dungeon (lol), I'd just queue it because it pops instantly due to nobody wanting to deal with babysitting 3 random people who don't know how to play the game. So much of this thread is comprised of people who definitely aren't chomping at the bit to heal dungeons, wringing their hands about the poor sad hypothetical healers who'll be excluded from some expert roulette speedrun. And somehow that's warrior's fault, lmao. Oh man, and second newsflash for people who just haven't encountered a good tank yet. With good enough damage, a PLD and a GNB won't need the healing either. Just FYI. So we can nerf them too if you want. GNB's Heart of Corundum is straight up just SCH's Excog with a new coat of paint. And a good PLD had me legit doing nothing when I "healed" him in an expert dungeon the other day. Better nerf those dudes too, right. Or we can just make the casual content not insultingly easy. Again, it wouldn't be hard to just include healchecks in this content. Idk why they don't. I wish they would.

[Kabooa]

For context

r/selfawarewolves

[Supersnow845]

lots of words

As has been explained more times than I can possibly count you can’t scale damage hard enough to outscale bloodwhetting, it just doesn’t work

In a dungeon as much as any other content I want to heal, not watch the tank heal themselves while I do something vaguely related to that task

It’s the same as saying “don’t nerf bloodwhetting just add cleanable debuffs and lots of buffs and things to compensate” like no the tank isn’t the healer and the healer shouldn’t be stuffed to the side so the tank can be the healer

One or two white hole mechanics per boss isn’t going to change anything and white hole mechanics are the worst mechanic for the sylphies anyway

[Aravell]

It’s the same as saying “don’t nerf bloodwhetting just add cleanable debuffs and lots of buffs and things to compensate” like no the tank isn’t the healer and the healer shouldn’t be stuffed to the side so the tank can be the healer

It's ok, they'll add a raidwide unavoidable doom and add an AoE Esuna effect to Shake it Off to compensate.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

It's ok, they'll add a raidwide unavoidable doom and add an AoE Esuna effect to Shake it Off to compensate.

An Esuna that cleanses all cleansables at the same time, like the original 4.0 Shake it Off, yes lol.

Time to make virtually every Esuna check completely obsolete.

[Marxam]

The problem is if you bring 1 healer 3 DPS your run will go slower and be messier than 1 tank 1 healer 2 DPS

if you bring 1 tank 3 DPS your run will go FASTER than even bringing a healer

No matter how easy it is you should never benefit from dropping a part of the trinity and this is an easily fixable balance issue

Ultimates are being beaten without healers, and/or tanks only. I think this game has bigger issues with balance than just WAR doing something that it has always been doing since ARR. It's always been a self heal tank and will always be. Honestly its been downhill for all tanks ever since SB where all tanks had access to a self heal but were also vastly different from each other in terms of gameplay loop. I'm sure a return to DA+AD spam would stop all those DRK's from whining about WAR's self sustain in dungeons.

[Supersnow845]

Ultimates are being beaten without healers, and/or tanks only. I think this game has bigger issues with balance than just WAR doing something that it has always been doing since ARR. It's always been a self heal tank and will always be. Honestly its been downhill for all tanks ever since SB where all tanks had access to a self heal but were also vastly different from each other in terms of gameplay loop. I'm sure a return to DA+AD spam would stop all those DRK's from whining about WAR's self sustain in dungeons.

Still both those examples are tanks being overly strong which aligns with what I said, the dungeon problem isn’t even a WAR exclusive problem it’s just the most egregious

[GoatOfWar]

Ultimates are being beaten without healers, and/or tanks only. I think this game has bigger issues with balance than just WAR doing something that it has always been doing since ARR. It's always been a self heal tank and will always be. Honestly its been downhill for all tanks ever since SB where all tanks had access to a self heal but were also vastly different from each other in terms of gameplay loop. I'm sure a return to DA+AD spam would stop all those DRK's from whining about WAR's self sustain in dungeons.

You wanted to do the same dps as us, it's time to give up the healing tbh.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Ultimates are being beaten without healers, and/or tanks only. I think this game has bigger issues with balance than just WAR doing something that it has always been doing since ARR. It's always been a self heal tank and will always be. Honestly its been downhill for all tanks ever since SB where all tanks had access to a self heal but were also vastly different from each other in terms of gameplay loop. I'm sure a return to DA+AD spam would stop all those DRK's from whining about WAR's self sustain in dungeons.

Hi, DA+AD era DRK here, no we would not "stop whining" for an issue we don't have. DAAD + TBN/Delirium cycling was extremely rewarding, but also incredibly broken.

Also I am pretty sure what WAR did back since ARR was not nearly as obscene and accessible as is now.

ARR + HW -> Access to Bloodbath on 90s CD, 30s duration (33% uptime), Steel Cyclone 25% lifesteal if Defiance, Inner Beast 50% if Defiance
Stormblood -> Access to Inner Release (90s CD) + Steel Cyclone, no Bloodbath, nowhere near as sustainable and took effort.
Shadowbringers -> Access to Nascent Flash (25s CD for 3 GCDs), scaled with damage dealt (not flat potencies), took moderate effort. There has been a video of a WAR clearing Pagl'than solo during that time - with full-sized pulls.

Current is what we had in Shadowbringers, but on crack. That aside, they have it now Lv56+ along with Equilibrium, a massively beefed up Shake it Off and a further regen on Shake.

Sorry but no, no tank should be this good at sustaining things. I said back in Stormblood DAAD cycling was stupid, this just takes the cake.