Yoshida gives update on the benchmark/character creator

[Berkilak]

The more people discuss the trolls, the more reason they have to do so.

[Glenfiddich]

In my opinion, this is definitely not racism. It's simply a lack of basic social communication skills and aggression.

Wow. You have to be a clever Person.
My Psychiatrist came to the same conclusion. I'm not kidding.
That's enough of that. On with the Topic.

[LlymlaenGreene]

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Exactly! All these people appear under each of our posts, even the most detailed ones with a large number of images and descriptions of the problem, and express their "expert" opinion regarding our complaint. Completely forgetting or ignoring the fact that no one cares about their opinion at all. We came here to leave a message for SE on their official forum. We didn't come here to discuss our characters' new looks with someone.

It is these people who turn the forum into chaos, in which for one picture there are a dozen meaningless answers and flood that simply hide information from the developers.

Insults, the standard remark "it’s the same picture", questions like "whose opinion should be a priority?" and other similar things are everywhere here.

There seems to be no moderation here at all. This is simply impossible on a Japanese forum. I have seen meaningless messages being deleted almost immediately.

You know, I wouldn't say it better than you (well, only that I am offended by other people's opinions and therefore it is even more difficult for me to write anything.) I came here just to share my indignation and leave a few posts about it, as I can. I agree that it is not as adequate and professional as it should be, with my temperament, as I would like, but I have learned my lesson, (I hope) But I already have 48 posts, because I have to defend myself or apologize or try to teach at least a little respect to those who disrespect others. (although I don't think I matter at all)

Because of your messages and those of others in this topic, I have an analogy, maybe not quite accurate, but I will voice it.
I feel like I'm being served a dish at my favourite restaurant, let's say my favourite salad is crab Louie, and they always made it with tomatoes. But now they've changed the recipe and added olives (not a fan) instead of tomatoes. And they ask me to leave a review, whether I like the new recipe or not. Naturally, I write that I don't! And at this point, I imagined that at this moment 10 regular customers of this restaurant were attacking me and starting to assure me that I should love this new salad, because they like olives, or that if you don't like it, then you just have to eat this salad, even if you don't like it, or just go to another restaurant and so on, something like that

[LlymlaenGreene]

It may have actually been addressed at this point, since I reported it and don't remember which thread it was, but it was someone being really racist about the JP forums actually behaving like a properly moderated forum.

I hope you don't mean my posts, since I also discussed Japanese forums and their polite mentality.

[Ath192]

You know, I wouldn't say it better than you (well, only that I am offended by other people's opinions and therefore it is even more difficult for me to write anything.) I came here just to share my indignation and leave a few posts about it, as I can. I agree that it is not as adequate and professional as it should be, with my temperament, as I would like, but I have learned my lesson, (I hope) But I already have 48 posts, because I have to defend myself or apologize or try to teach at least a little respect to those who disrespect others. (although I don't think I matter at all)

Because of your messages and those of others in this topic, I have an analogy, maybe not quite accurate, but I will voice it.
I feel like I'm being served a dish at my favourite restaurant, let's say my favourite salad is crab Louie, and they always made it with tomatoes. But now they've changed the recipe and added olives (not a fan) instead of tomatoes. And they ask me to leave a review, whether I like the new recipe or not. Naturally, I write that I don't! And at this point, I imagined that at this moment 10 regular customers of this restaurant were attacking me and starting to assure me that I should love this new salad, because they like olives, or that if you don't like it, then you just have to eat this salad, even if you don't like it, or just go to another restaurant and so on, something like that

You share this restaurant with all the other customers though, and maybe a lot of them are tired because they've been serving the same salad and menu for over a decade so they are happy that the restaurant is changing things up and trying new things. They also want to encourage the restaurant to keep experimenting with these things but are concerned that because of the rudely worded feedback and poor reception by a vocal minority that the restaurant may roll back the changes or stagnate. This in consequence would cause them to give up on their also favorite restaurant. So they defend the changes.

So let me ask you then, are you the only one that matters? Do others not have any right to disagree and let the restaurant know they do in fact like the changes? Would you rather us start a million other individual threads about things we like instead of counter arguing in yours and leave the thread with the single original post and barren because you don't want anyone to comment?

We are getting to the point where people are feeling as victims because not everyone agrees with them... And they would rather everyone shut up and silence anyone who disagrees or goes against this narrative. Rest assured this is not victimhood. It's oppression.

There's nothing wrong with leaving feedback, but acting like others can't because your feedback is the only one that matters is wrong. No other way about it.

That's my take on this situation.

[LlymlaenGreene]

You share this restaurant with all the other customers though, and maybe a lot of them are tired because they've been serving the same salad and menu for over a decade so they are happy that the restaurant is changing things up and trying new things. They also want to encourage the restaurant to keep experimenting with these things but are concerned that because of the rudely worded feedback and poor reception by a vocal minority that the restaurant may roll back the changes or stagnate. This in consequence would cause them to give up on their also favorite restaurant. So they defend the changes.

So let me ask you then, are you the only one that matters? Do others not have any right to disagree and let the restaurant know they do in fact like the changes? Would you rather us start a million other individual threads about things we like instead of counter arguing in yours and leave the thread with the single original post and barren because you don't want anyone to comment?

We are getting to the point where people are feeling as victims because not everyone agrees with them... And they would rather everyone shut up and silence anyone who disagrees or goes against this narrative. Rest assured this is not victimhood. It's oppression.

There's nothing wrong with leaving feedback, but acting like others can't because your feedback is the only one that matters is wrong. No other way about it.

That's my take on this situation.

No, I'm not the only one whose opinion is important and I've already said in my previous posts that I want the developers to make everyone happy! *Easier said than done, isn't it? * Those who are happy and those who are unhappy too. I mean, when you write a review here, they literally tell you, I think it's better for you * trying to fix your review*. Not everyone does this, but I've seen many such posts here. And as the user bun DiaDeem said above, I am also in favor of a closed connection, so that when I posted my review, people did not start manipulating me.
This is an analogy about those who replace my point of view with their own, and do not add anything to it, if I wrote it correctly, of course

I'm not going to point fingers, but in the topic where I complain, people literally pop in who make fun of our fears with memes, tell us to touch the grass, drink fanta and other delights. And it's all in an aggressive way. And therefore, to answer your question, I would prefer not the desert, no. I would prefer an oasis with people who have a constructive dialogue. Because there are a lot of great people out there who accept updates but also want solutions to our problems.

And if you need my point of view, I naturally just want my old but improved character. To make it look the same, but with a higher texture, like HD. But let's say there is a hero with the same type of face as me and she wants to use this new, changed face that she liked. It would be rude to say that my opinion is higher than hers, because I think she has the right to it too!

Therefore, for me, the ideal option would be to add overly modified faces as new options. New noses, lips, eyes. After all, then we would all benefit from it. So many new customization possibilities, wow! * if this is possible, of course, I am not a developer, but in this thread I saw a message from someone who works in game development and he says that this may be possible. But I do not know * * eh dreams of dreams*

[posona]

I agree everyone’s feedback is important, whether constructive criticism or positive.

For my part, when I interact with a thread it’s either to express my own concerns for how my character looks or to praise the update; in both instances it’s to share with other players in a constructive way. For instance, I’m really pleased with how my face 4 fem Miqo looks, but when posting on those threads it’s to share my character in order to add to the examples. Maybe my miqo looks awful to everyone else, or maybe she doesn’t look as bad as everyone else’s because her skintone is different from others or her eyes haven’t lost their shape. I’m not posting to invalidate everyone else’s concerns, just trying to be helpful. I think if we contrast and compare we can really pinpoint the issues better.

Anyone who posts to a thread just to say “I think it’s good” or “I think you look good” isn’t contributing and derailing the thread. That’s how I see it at least.

[Ath192]

No, I'm not the only one whose opinion is important and I've already said in my previous posts that I want the developers to make everyone happy! Those who are happy and those who are unhappy too. I mean, when you write a review here, they literally tell you, I think it's better for you * trying to fix your review*. Not everyone does this, but I've seen many such posts here. And as the user bun DiaDeem said above, I am also in favor of a closed connection, so that when I posted my review, people did not start manipulating me.
This is an analogy about those who replace my point of view with their own, and do not add anything to it, if I wrote it correctly, of course

...

We agree then on the fundamentals. Those people who manipulate points of view, take things out of context and resort to insults exist on both sides however, so just like they've made you feel this way, the ones who are whining and insulting those who are mostly happy are doing the same to us.

But by all accounts, the more improvements the better so long as we can do it in a respectful and supportive manner. My only objective here is that devs feel comfortable and rewarded when they innovate on their game. I've been plenty critical of it when it was stagnating.

Unlike the popular belief here that just because you pay a company money you get to insult and treat the employees like trash I think people need to be considerate of others regardless of whether they are working for you or not. Would you work at a place where you're forced to sit and take insults all day long? You couldn't pay me enough money to do that, because not even a billion dollars in my wallet is going to make up for the mental health toll it's going to take on my life.

So then, who are people and devs who would work ONLY because of the paycheck? People who absolutely couldn't care less about the product and just what money they can get out of you. Are these the only people we want working at SE? What we do and say to the developers has consequences, whether people acknowledge it or not. They think that because they are the ones paying money it absolves them from any responsibility or liability, but that isn't the case.

If we want people who love their job and bring their passion we also have a part to play in bringing them in.

[Loggos]

So let me ask you then, are you the only one that matters? Do others not have any right to disagree and let the restaurant know they do in fact like the changes? Would you rather us start a million other individual threads about things we like instead of counter arguing in yours and leave the thread with the single original post and barren because you don't want anyone to comment?

We are getting to the point where people are feeling as victims because not everyone agrees with them... And they would rather everyone shut up and silence anyone who disagrees or goes against this narrative. Rest assured this is not victimhood. It's oppression.

There's nothing wrong with leaving feedback, but acting like others can't because your feedback is the only one that matters is wrong. No other way about it.

Nobody has ever said people who like the benchmark result can't give positive feedback, this is such a bad faith take on the situation that it genuinely baffles me.

There are positivity threads and there are people posting in compilation threads saying "I like my character better now" or "I like most of the things now, only this or that small thing could be better" and none of this is the point of contention.

When people voice their concerns they generally talk about how they are unhappy with what their own character looks like and sometimes also show examples or give detailed technical feedback.

I have only seen very few people requesting a roll-back, i.e., something which would affect those who like the benchmark.
The most discussed active thread is literally called "Make it optional", meaning those who like it will have the option to use the new features. Whether this is technically possible is another question. But the request from the critical side is overwhelmingly "give both sides what they want if possible".

So the correct analogy would be: the restaurant introduces a changed salad recipe and aks everybody what they think. We are supposed to give benchmark feedback.
Naturally people will also give negative feedback.
So some people truthfully say "I personally don't like the new salad. Please keep the tomato option, while also serving the olive option". And then those people are met with "There is no difference. You are exaggerating. I like your new salad better. People who keep posting about how they don't like their own character are whiners etc."

Most of us literally do not want to get rid of the new options. We would just like to get updated options which preserve the spirit of the old features too if it is in any way possible. We also know there won't be a 100% translation from current features to updated features. But there is a difference between some loss due to necessary updates and completely changing certain features.

As far as I understand the reason why the Japanese side's feedback is so orderly is not because there are no people saying "I don't like xyz". To my understading the reason is that other people let the negative feedback be and just add the positive feedback about their own characters. But others may correct me on this assumption.

[Ath192]

Nobody has ever said people who like the benchmark result can't give positive feedback, this is such a bad faith take on the situation that it genuinely baffles me.

This is a bad faith reading of my post, go read it again. It baffles me that you go on about bad faith takes and make a bad faith take to make your bad faith take.

It's interesting that the OP of that particular post, made a good faith reading of my post, we found middle ground and resolved our issues and agreed. But then, you know better than everyone and start making accusations and slinging mud.

Like really? What is up with you?

@LlymlaenGreene

I mean, when you write a review here, they literally tell you, I think it's better for you * trying to fix your review*. Not everyone does this, but I've seen many such posts here. And as the user bun DiaDeem said above, I am also in favor of a closed connection, so that when I posted my review, people did not start manipulating me.
This is an analogy about those who replace my point of view with their own, and do not add anything to it, if I wrote it correctly, of course

Sort of like what Loggos did just now? This is actually the perfect example of this happening on both sides. So just know when I spoke that both sides were doing this to each other less than 15 minutes passed before this behavior showed up again.