Reddit vs. the Forums in the Graphics War of '24

[Banriikku]

O.O Question do you get paid for this ? If not why this?
Youre argument is not amenable to proof and with that we talk about youre feelings.
And lets be honest here, to talk about youre feeling you need to be more respectful and friendly with people.

But i am nice.
So you have no problem with the "graphic change".
You feel there is too much focus on it?
But we are close to release and this the only thing we can give feedback here on a froum right now.
Also even if you "feel" there is no problem, more choices should not be a problem?
Sure there are some weirdos asking for "no change" but there are on all sides such special ones.
On youre side there people that say "we dont see" changes and that is a statement, that indicates a serouis medical problem or a behavior problem.
Both kind of people should not be here and seek help.
If you "feel" there is too much focus i can only tell you, that if something you care for in this game is undergoing such drastic measures you would give feedback in the right place.
Also if you "feel" "its just a game".... sorry i cant teach you selfrespect or the worth of money in a game forum.
And if youre are fine with deminishing the worth of youre money and/or time, thats ok but do not push youre feeling/agenda on others.
As others pointed out there is other platforms, on which is not this much discussed about the "graphic change", there is a space where you can go but this is "The official Forum for FFXIV".
I guess thats the downside for you. I am sorry this space is "annyoing" to you at the moment but its not youre space alone.
So bear with it, soon™ it is over. Have a good day.

[Freyt]

O.O Question do you get paid for this ? If not why this?
Youre argument is not amenable to proof and with that we talk about youre feelings.
And lets be honest here, to talk about youre feeling you need to be more respectful and friendly with people.

But i am nice.
So you have no problem with the "graphic change".
You feel there is too much focus on it?
But we are close to release and this the only thing we can give feedback here on a froum right now.
Also even if you "feel" there is no problem, more choices should not be a problem?
Sure there are some weirdos asking for "no change" but there are on all sides such special ones.
On youre side there people that say "we dont see" changes and that is a statement, that indicates a serouis medical problem or a behavior problem.
Both kind of people should not be here and seek help.
If you "feel" there is too much focus i can only tell you, that if something you care for in this game is undergoing such drastic measures you would give feedback in the right place.
Also if you "feel" "its just a game".... sorry i cant teach you selfrespect or the worth of money in a game forum.
And if youre are fine with deminishing the worth of youre money and/or time, thats ok but do not push youre feeling/agenda on others.
As others pointed out there is other platforms, on which is not this much discussed about the "graphic change", there is a space where you can go but this is "The official Forum for FFXIV".
I guess thats the downside for you. I am sorry this space is "annyoing" to you at the moment but its not youre space alone.
So bear with it, soon™ it is over. Have a good day.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with people coming here to voice their criticisms or concerns as an attempt to change the direction of the game. The problem arises when people decide it requires no organization to it, to fill up the board, and act like everyone in the world agrees with them.

[Supersnow845]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with people coming here to voice their criticisms or concerns as an attempt to change the direction of the game. The problem arises when people decide it requires no organization to it, to fill up the board, and act like everyone in the world agrees with them.

I mean let’s not pretend like the reverse isn’t true, the average forum user who is fine with a change or likes the current state of something basically always resorts to the old fallacy of “you have opinion A I have counter opinion B unless you can show me overwhelming evidence of A we should assume B is right by default despite me showing no evidence of B”

Functionally anytime someone makes an argument someone will hit them with “well this is just the forum people who are happy aren’t coming to the forum to complain”, it’s not like square ever releases data on whether something is popular or not

Let’s not pretend like “i made an argument everyone has to agree with me” is the only form of problematic argument

They don't ignore the core functions of the game, they just think you're wrong and probably have the data to back them up but we will never know for sure~

Literally perfect example in the next comment, “they probably are popular, let’s just assume they are popular” and not “hey they might not actually listen to feedback as much as we think they do

[Arkdra]

I mean let’s not pretend like the reverse isn’t true, the average forum user who is fine with a change or likes the current state of something basically always resorts to the old fallacy of “you have opinion A I have counter opinion B unless you can show me overwhelming evidence of A we should assume B is right by default despite me showing no evidence of B”

Functionally anytime someone makes an argument someone will hit them with “well this is just the forum people who are happy aren’t coming to the forum to complain”, it’s not like square ever releases data on whether something is popular or not

Let’s not pretend like “i made an argument everyone has to agree with me” is the only form of problematic argument



Literally perfect example in the next comment, “they probably are popular, let’s just assume they are popular” and not “hey they might not actually listen to feedback as much as we think they do

My dude, just about everything they do is in response to feedback. 2 minute meta? Feedback. Tank and healer remake in shb? Feedback. Everything they've done post launch with housing is feedback. Glamour plates? Feedback. They cut the exploratory mission in EW because of feedback and they are bringing it back in DT because of the counter feedback. They brought back a deep dungeon because of feedback but that got morbin timed. Criterion is a direct response to the endless asks for smaller group hard content. Dedicated face slot and dye channels? Feedback. It was interesting when the response to kaiten's removal wasn't strong enough to get them to reverse course on that but it did get them to not go forward with some other changes they had planned.

[Supersnow845]

My dude, just about everything they do is in response to feedback. 2 minute meta? Feedback. Tank and healer remake in shb? Feedback. Everything they've done post launch with housing is feedback. Glamour plates? Feedback. They cut the exploratory mission in EW because of feedback and they are bringing it back in DT because of the counter feedback. They brought back a deep dungeon because of feedback but that got morbin timed. Criterion is a direct response to the endless asks for smaller group hard content. Dedicated face slot and dye channels? Feedback. It was interesting when the response to kaiten's removal wasn't strong enough to get them to reverse course on that but it did get them to not go forward with some other changes they had planned.

Housings biggest feedback from day 1 was “make it instanced” they have literally ignored the most common feedback about housing since day 1 and dance around it because they themselves have said they like the neighbourhood feeling, when was the last time someone praised the neighbourhood feeling of the houses

Same as tanks and healers, they had the same feedback in SB, “I don’t like losing damage to perform my core function and relying excessively on the party to help me achieve the core function. In response they nuked agro out of the tanks and designed healers like they are playing a different game and satisfaction crashed on those jobs going into ShB, yet they did not reverse course at all

At best they overcorrect in response to poorly constructed feedback then refuse to backtrack on the over correction at worst they just ignore feedback and implement their vision anyway. You also said “feedback to Kaiten wasn’t strong enough to reverse course. Was there a single shred of positive feedback on the Kaiten changes”, if there was why didn’t they mention it, all they said was “give it a try you might love it anyway”

[Arkdra]

Housings biggest feedback from day 1 was “make it instanced” they have literally ignored the most common feedback about housing since day 1 and dance around it because they themselves have said they like the neighbourhood feeling, when was the last time someone praised the neighbourhood feeling of the houses

Same as tanks and healers, they had the same feedback in SB, “I don’t like losing damage to perform my core function and relying excessively on the party to help me achieve the core function. In response they nuked agro out of the tanks and designed healers like they are playing a different game and satisfaction crashed on those jobs going into ShB, yet they did not reverse course at all

At best they overcorrect in response to poorly constructed feedback then refuse to backtrack on the over correction at worst they just ignore feedback and implement their vision anyway. You also said “feedback to Kaiten wasn’t strong enough to reverse course. Was there a single shred of positive feedback on the Kaiten changes”, if there was why didn’t they mention it, all they said was “give it a try you might love it anyway”

Apartments are the compromise they came up with for instanced housing. You can think this sucks, and honestly, I would agree, but you can't say they ignored it.

You have 0 evidence that a satisfaction crash ever happened. You at best have anecdotal evidence that people on this forum have been posting angrily about it but this forum doesn't represent even 1% of the active playerbase. Regardless, your feedback has not been ignored, the 340 page thread named Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate" came about from him directly addressing healer feedback. In a way that you can find unsatisfactory if you are so inclined (and I'd also agree it's a shit answer), but it's not ignored.

[Supersnow845]

Apartments are the compromise they came up with for instanced housing. You can think this sucks, and honestly, I would agree, but you can't say they ignored it.

You have 0 evidence that a satisfaction crash ever happened. You at best have anecdotal evidence that people on this forum have been posting angrily about it but this forum doesn't represent even 1% of the active playerbase. Regardless, your feedback has not been ignored, the 340 page thread named Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate" came about from him directly addressing healer feedback. In a way that you can find unsatisfactory if you are so inclined (and I'd also agree it's a shit answer), but it's not ignored.

Would you prefer I link you the job satisfaction surveys going into 5.x that saw AST and SCH go from middle of the pack to last and second last and for DRK and WAR to crash near 10 spots each or does that also not count as evidence

Again it circles back to the point that people on the forum way too easily resort to “let’s just assume I’m right because there isn’t overwhelming evidence to the contrary”

And are you really going to argue that a shit compromise nobody actually likes counts as valid response to feedback rather than actually implementing the feedback

[Banriikku]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with people coming here to voice their criticisms or concerns as an attempt to change the direction of the game. The problem arises when people decide it requires no organization to it, to fill up the board, and act like everyone in the world agrees with them.

Hmm, yes i agree but thats on SE. I thought mods and the like sort that stuff out and make sure this forum works but i only saw a mod once or twice doing things here. So thats on them.