Character graphical changes are NOT in an acceptable state, please make it optional

[AirisRay]

Correct me if I'm wrong but, judging by your previous posts, your main complaint has been the more prominent dimples at the mouth.

Thank you to Rein for the image:



These same dimples are more prominent in the example image too. Yet this example image was (and still is, judging by Rein's post) celebrated as 'quality'. Similarly, the lower section of the face on the example image seems a very little wider - just as it does in yours. Though this is purely to my own viewpoint and, again, could be lighting or physical feature adjustment or a combination of both.

The reason something that was approved earlier and celebrated widely by players as being a positive change has now been heavily criticized? Because it has been applied to our own familiar characters. These changes on that less familiar face were easier to view as a whole. On our own characters, these same small changes now more easily picked up as being 'different' and are becoming a huge fixation for many players.

It doesn't look like a dimple. It looks like a depression running through the entire lips and adjacent cheek area. This is exactly what I talk about in all my previous posts. I also wrote a big post with a lot of examples in the bugs section.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-part-of-face.

In this particular example, I don't see flat, untextured lips pressed inward. This cannot be compared to what my character is now. Also, here the shape of the lips is repeated with perfect accuracy. My character's lips have completely lost their original shape and outline.

Also, in the example they presented, soft diffused artificial light falls on the character. In the benchmark we have the same sharp shadows as in the current game. Perhaps in 7.0 the light will be different. But flat, depressed lips will not turn into plump lips in any light. This is physically impossible. And also, another light will not change their outlines.

[Scintilla]

snip

So the two main points are:
- Lip Shape
- 'Depression Line' running the length of the lips and extending slightly to the cheek, creating a dimpled appearance either side of the mouth.
- Shadows appearance around the mouth

First things to highlight is the obvious difference in lip choice between your own character and that of the example (fuller lips in your own character vs thinner option in the example) and the slightly different position of both characters (the example image and, to a lesser extent, your first image being rotated very slightly to the right. Your own benchmark image being more front-facing).



In the example image:
- The outer lip shape remains largely the same. The only slight difference perhaps is the curves to the lips have been soften slightly.

- The inner line though has been changed. It no longer flexes in the middle to mirror the cupids-bow, it now remains a straight line, perhaps with a marginal upward curve at the edges. Shadows on the top lip and beneath that line have been deepened slightly, giving that curved, depressed appearance, and it extends slightly beyond the lips creating a slight dimple at either side.

- Shadows around the lips are primarily beneath the bottom lip and either side around that extended depression line, creating the dimples.




In your image:
- The top lip appears the same, except the curves have been soften slightly and the colour has become a single block, rather than having smaller shadows within the lip around the cupids-bow (like the example). Perhaps that is the reason for the flatter appearance you say you see?
In regards to the bottom lip, I'm torn as to how much or how little it's changed. Upon first glance it appears a little more boxy, with the lower edge being less of a smooth curve. Though I can't decide whether this is the combined result of both the lower-lip shadow appearance and the lip colour itself being a little less defined in the benchmark or whether this actually is a structure change. The more I look at it, the more I'm leaning towards the former, but let's err on the side of caution and say it's the latter as you claim.

- Like the example image, the inner line is flattened, the top lip is darker (perhaps this is more obvious on your own character because that lip is bigger than in the example), and there is a slight shadow running beneath that line. The line runs beyond the lip edge, into the cheeks (like in the example)

- As for shadows around the lips: the shadows on your benchmark is in the same place as the example (beneath the lower lip and at either edge of the lips at the dimples) One thing I would say is that the shadows are deeper on your benchmark than on the examples, leading to a greater contrast at those dimpled areas making them appear very slightly more pronounced. But this is shadow - not structural. That could be any number of reasons: positioning? lighting? settings? an unfortunate consequence of your own choice of lip shape compared to that of the example?


Ultimately, I think the look is more to do with shadowing/shadow appearance. I know that isn't what you'll want to hear because a physical lip structure change is a far more straightforward reason suggesting a more straightforward solution. I don't doubt you'll strongly disagree with me too.

On a more lighthearted note, I don't think I have ever stared at a character's lips for so long!

[Anarnee]

I think the look is more to do with shadowing/shadow appearance.

I feel like this def has to be a lot more than lighting. A lot of these remodels have been deceptive in 2D, I couldn't tell why my femroes lips looks so much flatter at first and then I tilted the camera some more and you can easily see the difference in the shape. Even if the new lips were not just flat across the board I'd just believe her cause I've been seeing everyone else find these differences with the lips in particular. It also def looks like the original lips rest in a smile and the new ones... I don't know what that's doing.

[Scintilla]

I feel like this def has to be a lot more than lighting. A lot of these remodels have been deceptive in 2D, I couldn't tell why my femroes lips looks so much flatter at first and then I tilted the camera some more and you can easily see the difference in the shape. Even if the new lips were not just flat across the board I'd just believe her cause I've been seeing everyone else find these differences with the lips in particular. It also def looks like the original lips rest in a smile and the new ones... I don't know what that's doing.

Ahh, you've got me staring at those lips again. It's almost hypnotic at this point xD

Looking at the top lip, it looks the same to me just with a far less defined lip edge, and a lot of extra shadowing causing the lip to look 'flat' compared to what it was. The bottom lip I am less certain, as I said in my post. The very base of it seems to remain in the same position, but it's harder to see because of less definition between the lip itself and the shadow below it. That said, watching them together like that, there does appear to be less of a curve at the outer edges of that bottom lip. Perhaps it is structural in that sense. That said, the point still remains that it is like what we saw in the examples - examples which everyone praised upon release (and still seem to be praising, rather surprisingly?)

[AirisRay]

I feel like this def has to be a lot more than lighting. A lot of these remodels have been deceptive in 2D, I couldn't tell why my femroes lips looks so much flatter at first and then I tilted the camera some more and you can easily see the difference in the shape. Even if the new lips were not just flat across the board I'd just believe her cause I've been seeing everyone else find these differences with the lips in particular. It also def looks like the original lips rest in a smile and the new ones... I don't know what that's doing.

Thank you SO much for this gif!

[AirisRay]

snip

After your words: "The top lip appears the same, except the curves have been soften slightly (like the example)" it became even more obvious to me that discussing with you makes absolutely no sense.

Have fun and troll each other... why not, maybe we’ll meet another day and under other circumstances. Today I’m not in the best mood and I’m afraid that mutual trolling will end with a sad result for you. I say this completely sincerely without any intention of offending you.

Whether I agree with you or not, whether you agree with me or not, also makes absolutely no sense. It would make sense to me if you were the person who "gave" my character that lower face. Then I would of course continue the discussion. But I'm here not to convince you of anything in particular.
So I'll just leave this picture here. It's not for you. You don't have to bother discussing it. I'm done talking to you anyway.



The tracing is done sloppy, but I didn’t try too hard, because I know that even without these white lines everything is completely obvious.

But this picture is for you This is exactly how I see you in our wonderful, meaningless conversation. I wish you all the best and have fun adventures in 7.0.

[Scintilla]

Seeing so many ppl in the community being so apathetic & dismissive of something that is obviously very important for a large portion of the playerbase (especially in a game so heavily story & character-driven) is kinda more frustrating than the non-consensual plastic surgery my girl (& a lot of us) has had. It's like telling someone with depression to cheer/toughen up because "it's not that bad" or "other ppl have it worse".

You have to look at this objectively though. A large proportion of people here have sought to be empathetic and supportive, tried to offer advice (changing maps, watching the benchmark before making any hasty judgement, altering graphics settings and Gamma Correction etc.), tried to offer reassurance (the lighting in the CC isn't the best and things may not look so bad once you actually get into the game, hope that SE will make adjustments in the future to fix a few of these issues etc.) but in return, all they are met with is hostility. If you want sympathy and support, don't harass your supporters.

I rest my case:

Have fun and troll each other... why not, maybe we’ll meet another day and under other circumstances. Today I’m not in the best mood and I’m afraid that mutual trolling will end with a sad result for you ... I'm done talking to you anyway ... But this picture is for you This is exactly how I see you in our wonderful, meaningless conversation

[Mosha]

The tracing is done sloppy, but I didn’t try too hard, because I know that even without these white lines everything is completely obvious.

But this picture is for you This is exactly how I see you in our wonderful, meaningless conversation. I wish you all the best and have fun adventures in 7.0.

How to prove someone's point any%.

[cutestfox]

Absolutely disgusting
Permanent lemon-sucking, joker we-live-in-a-society, :I face in every lighting angle and a busted marionette puppet jaw

This is not how this face is meant to look. It's destroyed
It's been sculpted into a literal freak. I can't even look at it, I don't even want to see other people running around with this face ingame

[AirisRay]

Absolutely digusting
Permanent lemon-sucking, joker we-live-in-a-society, :I face in every lighting angle and a busted marionette puppet jaw

This is not how this face is meant to look. It's destroyed
It's been sculpted into a literal freak. I can't even look at it, I don't even want to see other people running around with this face ingame

Unfortunately this is all true