We need to compromise as a player base

[Fuyume]

...We need a compromise, not to throw away all the hard work from the dev team and the many improvements the update is bringing to the table.

I don't think anyone is arguing that the lighting in XIV doesn't need an improvement, what we're saying is this ain't it. It's swung too far the other direction and now everything is *too* bright on characters, almost glowing. It looks great on the environments but they need to take another look at how lighting interacts with characters.

[Loggos]

Yeah I have the feeling the new lighting was optimised towards better displaying the environment and that does look great, not gonna lie.

It just doesn't really complement the characters for some reason.
Landscapes and foliage that are modelled a lot more realistically probably need different properties to make them shine compared to characters that used to be and still are modelled in a semi-realistic style to avoid an uncanny valley look.

The close up of Meteor in the benchmark trailer felt kinda unsettling to me because on the one hand he was still relatively stylised but he also had really detailed pores.

It feels like with the characters the balance between realism (incl. textures and lighting) and the preservation of FF 14's signature art style is still off at the moment.

[DiaDeem]

snip

Alright, mock me then.

Show scenes that have nothing to do with the Occular, Amaurot or Varis's tent. Like that's gonna be useful to accurately compare anything.

At least I now know who is serious about this discussion and who's just acting like a clown.

___________________________

I don't think anyone is arguing that the lighting in XIV doesn't need an improvement, what we're saying is this ain't it. It's swung too far the other direction and now everything is *too* bright on characters, almost glowing. It looks great on the environments but they need to take another look at how lighting interacts with characters.

Yeah I have the feeling the new lighting was optimised towards better displaying the environment and that does look great, not gonna lie.

It just doesn't really complement the characters for some reason.
Landscapes and foliage that are modelled a lot more realistically probably need different properties to make them shine compared to characters that used to be and still are modelled in a semi-realistic style to avoid an uncanny valley look.

The close up of Meteor in the benchmark trailer felt kinda unsettling to me because on the one hand he was still relatively stylised but he also had really detailed pores.

It feels like with the characters the balance between realism (incl. textures and lighting) and the preservation of FF 14's signature art style is still off at the moment.

I'm glad to see there's still sensible people in the Forums.

[decomposer]

What I personally don't understand, is any argument that current lighting is better.

We need a compromise, not to throw away all the hard work from the dev team and the many improvements the update is bringing to the table.

I actually won't argue with this. Current lighting is atrocious, especially for dark skinned characters. That being said, however, I'm not (totally) certain the current lighting will be much better. The only hope I have is that in shade (not complete darkness) the character seems self-lit. However, as I said in my previous reply, I worry that this is due to skin translucency and not necessarily a net-positive for the lighting. So while darker skinned characters look better in shade, they may look horrendous in direct light. As far as the cutscene goes, there actually wasn't a shot where the character experiences direct sunlight (they always seem to be standing in their own shadow) ; something that happens a lot in-game. Nor was there a shot of total darkness. As far as harsh shadows go, that opening ship cutscene was enough to make me grapple with the same concerns I have now regarding lighting.

So, I really do think the lighting might be better in some ways (maybe a lot of ways) but I worry that when it's worse, it's going to be a (a lot) worse.

[DiaDeem]

I actually won't argue with this. Current lighting is atrocious, especially for dark skinned characters. That being said, however, I'm not (totally) certain the current lighting will be much better. The only hope I have is that in shade (not complete darkness) the character seems self-lit. However, as I said in my previous reply, I worry that this is due to skin translucency and not necessarily a net-positive for the lighting. So while darker skinned characters look better in shade, they may look horrendous in direct light. As far as the cutscene goes, there actually wasn't a shot where the character experiences direct sunlight (they always seem to be standing in their own shadow) ; something that happens a lot in-game. Nor was there a shot of total darkness. As far as harsh shadows go, that opening ship cutscene was enough to make me grapple with the same concerns I have now regarding lighting.

So, I really do think the lighting might be better in some ways (maybe a lot of ways) but I worry that when it's worse, it's going to be a (a lot) worse.

I appreciate your posts, Verrot. Your comparisons have also been really good, and I'm sure very useful to any dev looking to tackle concerns. I know dark skinned characters have always had it rough in XIV and I can only hope the final product will be better than what we've seen so far.

[AirisRay]

Alright, mock me then.

Show scenes that have nothing to do with the Occular, Amaurot or Varis's tent. Like that's gonna be useful to accurately compare anything.

At least I now know who is serious about this discussion and who's just acting like a clown.

If you thought that my message was full of evil sarcasm, I assure you that this is not so. If this offended you, I sincerely apologize.

When I have the opportunity to bring here similar screenshots from these locations in 7.0, I will definitely do so.

All I have for now are screenshots from some videos and a benchmark. And the lighting on the characters looks almost as bad there as in the current version of the game. This confused me even before the benchmark appeared.

[decomposer]

I appreciate your posts, Verrot. Your comparisons have also been really good, and I'm sure very useful to any dev looking to tackle concerns. I know dark skinned characters have always had it rough in XIV and I can only hope the final product will be better than what we've seen so far.

Thank you! I've put a lot of heart in my character, and for those reasons I'm really attuned to the changes. But on the same token, I can look at parts of the benchmark (both CC and cutscene) and think "hey, this is really promising!" I think everyone would do well to remember this is an admitted work in progress (says so on the website!) so these discussions are hopefully going to be heard. No one needs to throw out their subscription or character yet, just as no one should feel like feedback is necessary. The update has done wonders on some characters, and that gives me hope!

[Mosha]

. And the lighting on the characters looks almost as bad there as in the current version of the game. This confused me even before the benchmark appeared.

Yeah don't know about that chief.

[NanaWiloh]

What I personally don't understand, is any argument that current lighting is better.

I'm not gonna even argue about the sculptures (even if I think some of the discussion is a bit overblown) because I can't tell you what your character is supposed to look like.

But guys...


Really?


Seriously??


We need a compromise, not to throw away all the hard work from the dev team and the many improvements the update is bringing to the table.

That middle pic of Aymeric says it all. Sad people are willing to let that slide..

[Bun_Vivant]

The only hope I have is that in shade (not complete darkness) the character seems self-lit. So, I really do think the lighting might be better in some ways (maybe a lot of ways) but I worry that when it's worse, it's going to be a (a lot) worse.

The benchmark doesn't have all the controls the current game has, or all the controls that were demonstrated in the LiveLetter.

In the current game, in System Configuration->Display Settings, there is a Character Lighting slider that applies an omnidirectional light just to your character so that your character is more brightly lit than other characters or the surroundings. I have that set to 84 out of 100. As far as I know, there is no such setting in the benchmark, so that may be why my characters are less brightly lit in the benchmark.

[EDIT: I just checked, and the Character lighting slider does apply to other characters, including NPCs.]]