Give Warrior the Dark Knight treatment in regards to Bloodwhetting

[Supersnow845]

So what? Give Bloodwhetting a 200 cure potency and a 60s cd?

Just change bloodwhetting to proc once per GCD, remove shake’s overtime effect and make nascent glint share the healing potency between you and the target

[GoatOfWar]

Just change bloodwhetting to proc once per GCD, remove shake’s overtime effect and make nascent glint share the healing potency between you and the target

Still wouldn't be enough.
Bw would still be the best short tank cd, Holmgang would still be the best invuln, it would still do the most dps in small group/solo content and Warrior would still be braindead easy to optimise.
I'd remove mitigation from BW and put holmgang's cooldown on 300 seconds as well. That way it would have an actual shortcoming. They don't want to deal lower damage, and demand to keep their ''job identity''? (comical amounts of heals) Then they should die to TB's without external mits.

[Supersnow845]

Still wouldn't be enough.
Bw would still be the best short tank cd, Holmgang would still be the best invuln, it would still do the most dps in small group/solo content and Warrior would still be braindead easy to optimise.
I'd remove mitigation from BW and put holmgang's cooldown on 300 seconds as well. That way it would have an actual shortcoming. They don't want to deal lower damage, and demand to keep their ''job identity''? (comical amounts of heals) Then they should die to TB's without external mits.

That was coming with the assumption they will rebalance the DPS in the new expansion, the DPS across the jobs will rarely stay static going into a new expansion as they try to potency balance the new actions

Holmgang definitely needs a nerf on its CD but I was more discussing healing specifically, holmgang warping entire savage tiers around it is an entirely different problem

[Tint]

They don't want to deal lower damage, and demand to keep their ''job identity''? (comical amounts of heals) Then they should die to TB's without external mits.

That was actually how WAR was designed in 2.0. Basically no mitigation tools (except Foresight, which increased the defense stat by 20% for 20 seconds, which was around 10%~ mitigation I think and of course only physical) but best tank dps and powerfull selfheals.

The tank stance also gave them 25% increased max HP instead of 20% mitigation. They were meant to be a reactive tank - take damage unmitigated and then use self heals to recover.

It didn't work out and they turned WAR into PLD in 2.1. But WAR was allowed to keep the damage and selfheal (slightly nerfed) and the tank balance has never recovered from this.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Still wouldn't be enough.
Bw would still be the best short tank cd, Holmgang would still be the best invuln, it would still do the most dps in small group/solo content and Warrior would still be braindead easy to optimise.
I'd remove mitigation from BW and put holmgang's cooldown on 300 seconds as well. That way it would have an actual shortcoming. They don't want to deal lower damage, and demand to keep their ''job identity''? (comical amounts of heals) Then they should die to TB's without external mits.

Bloodwhetting granting a good amount of healing in single target shouldn't be an issue, but iff you really insist on lowering the output of Bloodwhetting, Raw Intuition and Nascent Flash, then the following tweaks should be made:

• Raw Intuition:
  - Heal potency adjusted from 400p to 300p.
  - Heal can only be triggered once per weaponskill.
  _
• Bloodwhetting:
  - Heal potency adjusted from 400p to 300p.
  - Shield potency of "Stem the Tide" lowered from 400p to 300p.
  - Heal can only be triggered once per weaponskill.
  _
• Nascent Flash:
  - Heal potency of "Nascent Flash" (self) adjusted from 400p to 200p.
  - Heal potency of "Nascent Glint" (ally) adjusted from 400p to 300p.
  - Shield potency of "Stem the Tide" lowered from 400p to 300p.
  - Heal can only be triggered once per weaponskill.

Removing the mitigation from these cooldowns is ill advised. Within scope of ultimate raiding, you already use external CDs (healer, DPS) to reduce damage taken by tanks. Making Warrior the one tank who effectively cannot give himself mitigation via short CD will make it a functionally terrible tank, especially if you lengthen the CD timer of Holmgang from 240s to 300s (which they should do). At that point you are literally better off using a DRK in place of WAR and not have to deal with a tank's own mitigation shortage.

If you lower the mitigation of WAR by removing it from BW, they will have to design content around WAR not having it, making every other tank now have excess mitigation.

[Rithy255]

Still wouldn't be enough.
Bw would still be the best short tank cd, Holmgang would still be the best invuln, it would still do the most dps in small group/solo content and Warrior would still be braindead easy to optimise.
I'd remove mitigation from BW and put holmgang's cooldown on 300 seconds as well. That way it would have an actual shortcoming. They don't want to deal lower damage, and demand to keep their ''job identity''? (comical amounts of heals) Then they should die to TB's without external mits.

What I'd do to warriors healing/mitigation is to...
Split it This was how it was balanced in Shadowbringers, obviously flash was used as target healing CD (Which I'm not a fan of)
Have it shared on 25s (Use one the other goes on cooldown too) have one CD be at 15%(8s) + 10%(4s), let this be able to target allies, The Other CD that shares it would be heal on hit(s) lasting for 8s, 400 potency, This Shouldn't be able to target players it should be a selfish self healing tool as warrior shouldn't be able to "heal allies". This should also only heal 400 no matter the amount of enemies, similar to how paladins holy circle doesn't have absurd healing in AOE pulls. Healers should actually have to heal, wall to wall should feel risky.

This would make warrior have strong options but have to Choose how to deal with it, the self healing will likely be better for auto(s) and attacks that are survivable while ur mitigation would be better at harsh busters.

Shake it off should be changed into a AOE mitigation ability, Give AOE Barriers to dark knight, as y'know that makes sense for the other"Magic tank". it's really weird that the berserker is the AOE shield tank with party healing aspects, the identity literally makes zero sense as it stands.

Personally I'm fine with warrior having a short Invul, but Ideally we would make Invuls more like 30s apart instead of 1min apart from each.

[GoatOfWar]

What I'd do to warriors healing/mitigation is to
Split it This was how it was balanced in shadowbringers, obviously flash was used as target healing CD (Which I'm not a fan of)
Have it shared on 25s (Use one the other goes on coolddown too) have one CD be at 15%(8s) + 10%(4s), let this be able to target allies, The Other CD that shares it would be heal on hit(s) lasting for 8s, 400 potency, This Shouldn't be able to target players it should be a selfish self healing tool as warrior shouldn't be able to "heal allies". This should also only heal 400 no matter the amount of enemies, similar to how paladins holy circle doesn't have absurd healing in aoe pulls. Healers should actually have to heal, wall to wall should feel risky.

This would make warrior have strong options but have to Choose how to deal with it, the self healing will likely be better for auto(s) and attacks that are survivable while ur mitigation would be better at harsh busters.

Shake it off should be changed into a AOE mitigation ability, Give AOE Barriers to dark knight, as y'know that makes sense for the other"Magic tank". it's really weird that the beserker is the AOE shield tank with party healing aspects, the identity literally makes zero sense as it stands.

Personally I'm fine with warrior having a short Invul, but Ideally we would make invuls more like 30s apart instead of 1min apart from each.

The only thing that matters on the tank invulns in their current design is their cooldown.
Warrior should lose duration on it's invuln so that it can't fully cover all mechanics, and it's forced to dig into it's defensive toolkit or gives healers stuff to do.
It's become an omnijob, and needs weaknesses.

[Rithy255]

The only thing that matters on the tank invulns in their current design is their cooldown.
Warrior should lose duration on it's invuln so that it can't fully cover all mechanics, and it's forced to dig into it's defensive toolkit or gives healers stuff to do.
It's become an omnijob, and needs weaknesses.

I'm fine with them having niche differences and different timers, the main issue I have with it is that warrior is already very good at everything and has the 2nd highest dps, If warrior had actual downsides or was a lot more difficult then at least it would have a reason.

The issue with Warrior is that its jack of all trades master of all, because it quite literally does everything with zero down sides, upsides only (being 2nd highest in DPS i count as a upside as u bring two different tanks so its Optimal)

I'm totally fine with higher cooldown invuls, for example Paladin, it should be great at utility and support, but giving it a longer invul on average and not the outright highest DPS (Imo gnb/drk should be currently) makes sense to me, more or less I'd like to reduce that gap between invuls because currently it's too big, I'd do that by making wars longer while shorting PLD's

[Sqwall]

The only thing that matters on the tank invulns in their current design is their cooldown.
Warrior should lose duration on it's invuln so that it can't fully cover all mechanics, and it's forced to dig into it's defensive toolkit or gives healers stuff to do.
It's become an omnijob, and needs weaknesses.

The ONLY upside to warriors invuln is it's recast timer. Nobody is celebrating the warrior for staying alive...but then to see it's health drop back down to 1 with only 3 seconds left on the invuln. The weakness is that holmgang just won't let you die more often then any of the other invulns.

Holmgang requires you to drop thrill and/or equal at the same time just so you can get healed up faster. Which can lower amount of mitigation for a buster soon after, or when you really need it.
GNB has that o shit moment to healers, but at least the gunbreaker doesn't lose HP after using it. Just a backwards hallowed.
And DRK's is kind of disgusting imo. 1500 potency heal PER attack...I was like "That's absurd!" when I read those patch notes. They fixed Living Dead with this change.

War does have a good invuln simply because you can use it 3-4 times per pull....other then that it's a great burden to the healers sometimes. The cooldown is fine imo. The weakness to holmgang is that you need healer to get you back to decent HP value.

[Supersnow845]

The ONLY upside to warriors invuln is it's recast timer. Nobody is celebrating the warrior for staying alive...but then to see it's health drop back down to 1 with only 3 seconds left on the invuln. The weakness is that holmgang just won't let you die more often then any of the other invulns.

Holmgang requires you to drop thrill and/or equal at the same time just so you can get healed up faster. Which can lower amount of mitigation for a buster soon after, or when you really need it.
GNB has that o shit moment to healers, but at least the gunbreaker doesn't lose HP after using it. Just a backwards hallowed.
And DRK's is kind of disgusting imo. 1500 potency heal PER attack...I was like "That's absurd!" when I read those patch notes. They fixed Living Dead with this change.

War does have a good invuln simply because you can use it 3-4 times per pull....other then that it's a great burden to the healers sometimes. The cooldown is fine imo. The weakness to holmgang is that you need healer to get you back to decent HP value.

WAR can put itself back to safe health levels with equilibrium alone it doesn’t need a healer

If WAR and DRK’s invulns swapped DRK would struggle with WAR’s invuln since it has little self healing but WAR needing to heal itself after the invuln is done is functionally of no concern at all