FFXIV needs to stop accommodating Solo Players

[Supersnow845]

Dude, your messages are nonsense. You're superimposing two problems: the fact that dungeon difficulty doesn't suit you, and the notion of cooperation.

Cooperation = working towards a common goal. The fact that you can do someone else's task, or that there is a programmed failure if one of the roles is absent, simply doesn't enter into the definition.

I think you’ll find if you go into a task then do everything yourself the other people aren’t going to say you are cooperating with them

[Lyth]

I think you’ll find if you go into a task then do everything yourself the other people aren’t going to say you are cooperating with them

So if you hard carry a team, that's not cooperating? That's a new one. Usually people just say thank you and move on.

Either way, what you're pointing to is a flaw of the trinity model and the difficulty in distributing responsibilities in an equal and fair way. This has nothing to do with the concept of solo play.

[Supersnow845]

So if you hard carry a team, that's not cooperating? That's a new one. Usually people just say thank you and move on.

Either way, what you're pointing to is a flaw of the trinity model and the difficulty in distributing responsibilities in an equal and fair way. This has nothing to do with the concept of solo play.

Yes if you as a tank can just solo the boss from 85% because the healer died to the first mechanic then I genuinely don’t see that as cooperation, you are just doing your own thing that’s vaguely aligned with someone else, the roles should rely on each other and coordinate with each other to achieve a goal, the tank mitigates, the healer heals the DPS provide support and do damage

On the current modern design you are functionally playing with bots

[Lyth]

...

The reason why self-healing tanks and raises on DPS exist is because they don't want everything to grind to a halt if a healer consistently dies in casual content. That's artificial value.

Again, this has nothing to do with solo vs. small group vs. large group gameplay, and we don't need to make everything into a healer thread.

[IDontPetLalas]

The reason why self-healing tanks and raises on DPS exist is because they don't want everything to grind to a halt if a healer consistently dies in casual content. That's artificial value.

Again, this has nothing to do with solo vs. small group vs. large group gameplay, and we don't need to make everything into a healer thread.

I have genuinely never seen the phrase "artificial value" before and have no idea of what you mean.

The thread has to do with not accommodating solo players, however if I look at the specific case of a tank/DPS finishing a boss without a healer I would rather that the healer gets kicked if they've wiped after several tries than they continue.

If everyone dies except the tank at the boss is still at some high percentage- no, it shouldn't be possible for the tank to solo it. If a few percentage are left, no problem, and everyone will likely thank the tank for doing so.

All of this is based upon the basis of this being a trilogy -based design.

I also don't know who the "they" is that wants this degree of self-healing combined with DPS mitigation and raises- however that's already been a topic for multiple other threads.

[Merrigan]

I think you’ll find if you go into a task then do everything yourself the other people aren’t going to say you are cooperating with them

It's not by taking a specific case (here, assuming that the other players are dead) that your argument will be better. In fact, it tends to prove that your initial argument wasn't very good...

Just: I agree that cooperative systems could be better, but putting the difficulty = cooperation equation is wrong. It's factual and in the dictionary definition.

Do you count cheering someone on from the sidelines as they watch you solo the boss as cooperation?

& Same answer.

[Supersnow845]

It's not by taking a specific case (here, assuming that the other players are dead) that your argument will be better. In fact, it tends to prove that your initial argument wasn't very good...

Just: I agree that cooperative systems could be better, but putting the difficulty = cooperation equation is wrong. It's factual and in the dictionary definition.



& Same answer.

You don’t need the other players to be dead to functionally just not need to care about other players

I’m not trying to link difficulty to cooperation here, dungeons are too easy but that isn’t my point, my point is if you have the tools; and the game encourages you; to outright ignore the other players because what they are doing is functionally irrelevant to what you are doing are you really cooperating because you are vaguely working towards the same goal of clearing the dungeon

In my eyes you aren’t and that contributes to why 14 feels way too solo focused. If I’m a tank I can ignore the healer, if I’m a healer I can ignore the DPS, if I’m a DPS I can ignore everyone but myself, there is no refresh, or tank stance, or goad or ewer. Why am I playing with other people if their actions have literally no bearing on me at all other than slightly changing the clear time of the content

The reason why self-healing tanks and raises on DPS exist is because they don't want everything to grind to a halt if a healer consistently dies in casual content. That's artificial value.

Again, this has nothing to do with solo vs. small group vs. large group gameplay, and we don't need to make everything into a healer thread.

And I’m not, this affects healers worse than other roles but all 3 suffer from it, I’m just most experienced with healers, I could argue from any of the three roles perspective.

An excessive focus on small group content that you then make other players you are playing irrelevant to yourself is basically just playing solo

[LianaThorne]

If I’m a tank I can ignore the healer, if I’m a healer I can ignore the DPS, if I’m a DPS I can ignore everyone but myself, there is no refresh, or tank stance, or goad or ewer. Why am I playing with other people if their actions have literally no bearing on me at all other than slightly changing the clear time of the content

I feel like this is a yes and no, depending on the circumstances.

DRK's can't really survive without a healer, at least in my experience of healing DRKs. Maybe I've just had a track record of running into DRK's that have no clue what they're doing but they feel incredibly paper thin compared to GNB, PLD and WAR. Otherwise yeah, I don't think the other 3 tanks really need to care about the healer since they can do it themselves.

If you want to run a dungeon with all of your DPS dead then I mean.... more power to you. I just feel that would be incredibly tedious and dull and question the point of it since tanks & healers have minimal DPS compared to someone in the actual role. But I'm not gonna question how someone gets their kicks.

The DPS case is valid because ultimately (unless you're a SMN or RDM) you don't need to really care past your own rotation and trying not to step in anything.