Frontlines sucks Ultra megathread

[Mistress_Irika]

Those saying "I want to raise the skill lvl of others" and yet being against separate queues for solo & premade tells you all you need to know-they aren't for anything but being able to steamroll randos, many of whom are "jUsT HeRe fOR ThE EXP luls". One of my biggest wishes for pvp is for them to remove the exp, every single mmo I've played that added exp to pvp ruined it because it brings in what I call lazy leeches, those who will either do just enough to avoid an afk removal or will intentionally run into the enemy over and over for "easy leveling exp".

Whether it's casual or competitive there won't be enough premade groups to even get that queue popping regularly. Everyone will be forced to play solo (which is what a lot of people want in the first place).

It was slightly better back when we had the option to play on our chosen grand company. People actually tried as long as they didn't run into a premade. You may want to consider bringing back that option? or giving us the option to do frontline customs undersized. (Note: There is a question mark on the bringing back the GCs, because that ultimately causes queue time increase to the most popular GC. With frontlines not having the option for a smaller crowd size to play that option may be dead on arrival.)

[Mawlzy]

Can you agree that if more players were better, premades would be less of a problem?

Yes, absolutely.

[OliviaLugria]

Yes, absolutely.

Can you agree that currently, average people's skill level is not enough to combat premades?

[Mawlzy]

Whether it's casual or competitive there won't be enough premade groups to even get that queue popping regularly. Everyone will be forced to play solo (which is what a lot of people want in the first place).

It was slightly better back when we had the option to play on our chosen grand company. People actually tried as long as they didn't run into a premade. You may want to consider bringing back that option? or giving us the option to do frontline customs undersized. (Note: There is a question mark on the bringing back the GCs, because that ultimately causes queue time increase to the most popular GC. With frontlines not having the option for a smaller crowd size to play that option may be dead on arrival.)

Right, the problem isn't new.

I'm interested in whether people think 24v24v24 is the ideal size for FL given current skillsets. I suspect it's okay on the new Shatter since the amount of ground that needs to be covered during the small ice phase likely works better with a lot of people. But for the other two maps my guess is 16v16v16 would be more enjoyable. Fewer players might even maintain current queue times while reducing rewards, which as others have noted has some hope of separating the wheat from the chaff.

[Mawlzy]

Can you agree that currently, average people's skill level is not enough to combat premades?

We seem to be slipping into repetition again, but yes, agreed. Although it begs the question of why they should have to.

[OliviaLugria]

So, is it not reasonable to say: the faster the average player improves, the faster premades are less of a problem?

[Mawlzy]

So, is it not reasonable to say: the faster the average player improves, the faster premades are less of a problem?

Yes. Maybe we could move forward to the point where you clap your hands together doing the tail swish thing and announce "Gotcha!"

[OliviaLugria]

Yes. Maybe we could move forward to the point where you clap your hands together doing the tail swish thing and announce "Gotcha!"

You at least accept that my issue "people are not improving fast enough" is a valid issue.

I would like to continue asking a few more questions. This is not some sort of "gatcha" trap. This is to find where are reasons diverge in a stright forward an direct manner.

Is it wrong to offer advice to players?

[Mistress_Irika]

Right, the problem isn't new.

I'm interested in whether people think 24v24v24 is the ideal size for FL given current skillsets. I suspect it's okay on the new Shatter since the amount of ground that needs to be covered during the small ice phase likely works better with a lot of people. But for the other two maps my guess is 16v16v16 would be more enjoyable. Fewer players might even maintain current queue times while reducing rewards, which as others have noted has some hope of separating the wheat from the chaff.

I can certainly agree with that. I'm pretty certain that games would go on a bit longer if the size was reduced. As for rewards, well...that depends on how much value the community is putting on the rewards. That part is going to have to be discussed.

So, is it not reasonable to say: the faster the average player improves, the faster premades are less of a problem?

My apologies for butting in. I know you mean well. If I hadn't quit maybe I would be seeking you out for games.
Anyways, people need to be given a reason for improving. If experience points and battle pass rewards is all that is driving most to play pvp then most people aren't going to care about how they play. I mean, pvp has been remade to where it's even easier to play, and that option of just playing for rewards without having to put in as much work is still the optimal work to play. Combine this with the casuals being hyper focused on objectives, and I can pretty much argue that playing pvp for experience points takes way less effort than playing dungeons, trials and roulettes. This type of gameplay style is relaxing to some. As long as there is no value on the in game stats themselves many won't care for improving in general. Just saying.

[Mawlzy]

You at least accept that my issue "people are not improving fast enough" is a valid issue.

I would like to continue asking a few more questions. This is not some sort of "gatcha" trap. This is to find where are reasons diverge in a stright forward an direct manner.

Is it wrong to offer advice to players?

I agree that NA FL matches would be more interesting if the average skill level was significantly higher. Currently, however, there is simply no reason for people to improve at all, except for those like you and me who enjoy being good at things. So to be as clear as I can to avoid further confusion, technically no, I don't agree that "people are not improving fast enough" is a valid issue. I think the route to where you and I both want to get primarily involves changing the composition of the players in FL, not attempting to train those who do not wish to be trained.

"Is it wrong to offer advice to players?" As a general principle, no. The devil is in the details, as I suspect we're about to discover.