Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

[Souljacker]

The players honestly got what they asked for. They wanted Healers to do DPS, gave SE an 'out' so to speak from designing content that requires consistent, sustained, and burst healing, and now everyone and their grandmother gives the side eye if your WHM isn't in a constant state of spin.

I don't blame Yoshi-P for more or less throwing his hands in the air and telling people to go do the ONLY content he could get away with making healing requirements actual REQUIREMENTS.

Y'all keep asking for DPS to make healing engaging, when that's not really the point of a healer to begin with. What did you expect?

[Sebazy]

Idk, wasn't there a thing about whether or not healer dps is actually needed in savage+ anyway, and the answer was supposedly 'no' but mathematically didn't make sense ? edit: (for dps checks/enrages i meant to specify)
I can't remember the specifics, but I do remember it being a dispute about sylphie healers in those kinds of content.

'It depends' was the fairest answer really.

Week one with a good but not exceptional group? You probably needed healer DPS.
E8S? You almost certainly needed healer DPS.

If you went into the tier months later with tome gear then you were more likely to be able to get away with less healer damage but having a pair of 0 DPS healers would still likely make things far harder on the rest of the group.

The players honestly got what they asked for. They wanted Healers to do DPS, gave SE an 'out' so to speak from designing content that requires consistent, sustained, and burst healing, and now everyone and their grandmother gives the side eye if your WHM isn't in a constant state of spin.

People give WHMs the side eye if they aren't spinning because said WHM's haven't been resource constrained for over 6 years now. Any job standing around doing nothing is going to raise eyebrows, this isn't a healer specific thing.

Think about it for a moment:

Healers have WAY more resources than they did back in 2.0-3.4
Healers have WAY more instant healing potency on tap than they did back in 2.0-3.4
Healers have WAY less risk associated with tapping into their DPS than they did back in 2.0-3.4

Meanwhile fights have gotten WAY slower thanks to bosses routinely standing around doing nothing whilst casting the next puzzle mechanic.
Not to mention that incoming damage is generally more consistent and predictable thanks to both a lack of crits from bosses as well as the general disappearance of insta cast non telegraphed mini secondary busters that used to be commonplace.

I don't blame Yoshi-P for more or less throwing his hands in the air and telling people to go do the ONLY content he could get away with making healing requirements actual REQUIREMENTS.

Which shows how little he understands healing in his own game given that it really boils down to mitigation requirements rather than healing requirements. Something which isn't fully in the hands of said healers anymore.

Y'all keep asking for DPS to make healing engaging, when that's not really the point of a healer to begin with. What did you expect?

Compelling gameplay.

I'm a diehard healer main at heart, I ranked top 10 worldwide for Gordias, HPS, I want to heal, healing is what I've always done in any MMO or indeed other game that supports that style of play. When a current 24 man has me wanting to alt F4 in boredom because there's nothing to heal and nothing else to do in the meantime that isn't literally pounding the life out of my 6 key on my keyboard (Yep, the RGB on my glare key has failed).

Give me healing, give me actual buff/debuff gameplay, I'll take anything that isn't endlessly smashing this stupid button endlessly for however long the duty happens to last.

[Souljacker]

Give me healing, give me actual buff/debuff gameplay, I'll take anything that isn't endlessly smashing this stupid button endlessly for however long the duty happens to last.

This is probably the first time I've actually seen someone ask for the right thing. All I've seen is folks asking for more DPS buttons to press during 'downtime' when they really should be asking for less healing downtime. Some folks in this very thread have it in their signatures, ffs. Go play a DPS class.

But, that's the majority of the playerbase - they want to DPS; it's easier than being actually responsible for keeping people alive outside of them staying themselves out of bad. Nevermind keeping them cleansed and buffed - I can't remember the last time I actually had to use an esuna. We don't even get haste.

How did that phrase go? If the Tank dies it's the healer's fault. If the healer dies it's the tank's fault. If DPS die it's their own damn fault.

There's something fundamentally wrong with the whole design the devs have adopted.

[ASkellington]

This is probably the first time I've actually seen someone ask for the right thing. All I've seen is folks asking for more DPS buttons to press during 'downtime' when they really should be asking for less healing downtime. Some folks in this very thread have it in their signatures, ffs. Go play a DPS class.

I'm sick and tired of saying this every single time someone brings this up since its clear they haven't actually looked at the healing issues in depth:

We asked for increased healing requirements BACK IN SHADOWBRINGERS.

The dev team has YET to deliver and Dawntrail drops in June.

Let that sink in for a moment.

Y'wanna know what else we asked for?

We asked for AST cards to go back to being 6 different effects.
We asked for a RETURN of dps and buffs/debuffs we lost GOING INTO Shadowbringers.
We asked for SCH to get Selene back.
And we asked for SGE to BE the heal by dps healer.

We got NONE OF THAT with only AST POSSIBLY getting something come the rework.

We asked for YEARS. And the dev team straight up said NO to increased healing requirements because it would be too much for new healers.

Well if you aren't going to increase the healing to where my kit would be worth a damn, prune the healing kit and give me SOMETHING TO DO IN MY DOWN TIME.

That is what we are asking for. Healing is boring and the dev team is too lazy to fix it. Don't wanna fix it? Fine. FIX MY BORING DPS THEN.

[Supersnow845]

This is probably the first time I've actually seen someone ask for the right thing. All I've seen is folks asking for more DPS buttons to press during 'downtime' when they really should be asking for less healing downtime. Some folks in this very thread have it in their signatures, ffs. Go play a DPS class.

But, that's the majority of the playerbase - they want to DPS; it's easier than being actually responsible for keeping people alive outside of them staying themselves out of bad. Nevermind keeping them cleansed and buffed - I can't remember the last time I actually had to use an esuna. We don't even get haste.

How did that phrase go? If the Tank dies it's the healer's fault. If the healer dies it's the tank's fault. If DPS die it's their own damn fault.

There's something fundamentally wrong with the whole design the devs have adopted.

If you actually read the healer threads then literally nobody on the healer forums opposes these sorts of things. Healing requirements are constrained in this game, there is functionally no way in semi modern raid design you can reasonably spend more than 50% of your total button presses on heals and this is excluding the slow GCD confounding the situation

If 50+% of your total button presses have to functionally be non healing buttons then they have to put something interesting there, buffs are an option, it’s why SB AST was fun even though it’s functionally always only had malefic spam, SB SCH rotation is another option, there is nothing inherently wrong with a semi interesting damage rotation on healer but it’s also not the only option, what shouldn’t be an option is the situation we are currently in

[Maltothoris]

This is probably the first time I've actually seen someone ask for the right thing. All I've seen is folks asking for more DPS buttons to press during 'downtime' when they really should be asking for less healing downtime. Some folks in this very thread have it in their signatures, ffs. Go play a DPS class.

But, that's the majority of the playerbase - they want to DPS; it's easier than being actually responsible for keeping people alive outside of them staying themselves out of bad. Nevermind keeping them cleansed and buffed - I can't remember the last time I actually had to use an esuna. We don't even get haste.

How did that phrase go? If the Tank dies it's the healer's fault. If the healer dies it's the tank's fault. If DPS die it's their own damn fault.

There's something fundamentally wrong with the whole design the devs have adopted.

Here's the other thing. We had buffs and debuffs before.

SCH used to have Fey Caress, Silent Dusk, Eye for an Eye, Virus, Fey Wind, Fey Covenant.

Astro used to have Disable and bole as a defensive card with Time Dilation to extend buffs on a party member and Celestial Opposition to extend all of the astro's personal buffs.

WHM didn't really have much outside of protect and stoneskin (changed into divine bension).

You can see why they moved away from debuffs and the like because there's always the change for it to become very lop-sided.

Also trying to give more heal still doesn't work for the most part because two big things with fight design.

FIGHTS ARE SCRIPTED AND DAMAGE IS SCRIPTED!!!!

[Absurdity]

I don't blame Yoshi-P for more or less throwing his hands in the air and telling people to go do the ONLY content he could get away with making healing requirements actual REQUIREMENTS.

That's the thing though, even ultimate has laughable healing requirements. As Sebazy has already said, it is all about mitigation. Which shows a fundamental lack of understanding from the devs.