I feel like people are too harsh on Endwalker, though...

[Merrigan]

I do at times think MSQ was too heavy for some players with the suicide scene, mother & baby dying, etc.

It was perfect that more difficult themes were tackled. Please, enough with the preening of absolutely everything and anything. We've already got it in the gameplay, with classes that must "avoid stress" at all costs as soon as they're anything other than dps; let's not start taking away the rare moments when MSQ isn't an ode to friendship. Video games are not designed to suit the escapism of players who want to take refuge from harsh reality. It can be so much more than that...

As for the OP: I really enjoyed Endwalker, but I think the theme in general should have been harder. Some themes are only sketched out, when they could have led to really interesting reflection. But, precisely to suit an audience that seems to be defined by default as ultra-sensitive, the game refuses to venture into this area. Which is a pity, given the general tone of this extension. Personally, that's what bothered me on several occasions: this sort of impression that the game is straddling the fence, then censoring itself at the last minute to suit a wider audience. It left me with an impression... of unfinished?

An example: the moment when we cause the death of the young girl and her sister, because they flee when we come to Garlemald. A very good passage, but where's the questioning of our interventionism? When do we point out that it's completely stupid to act in this way after decades of war, and by sending the warrior of light who must pass, in these regions, for a potential genocidaire? The game skims the surface of a very interesting theme, then retropedals with a meager "oh, that's sad". Lucia tells us, I think, that she's "sorry we had to witness that... Huh? No, just yell at us, tell us that coming face to face with a small, obviously indoctrinated village was bound to end this way. Address the fact that the "good" and "bad" sides are just illusions; after all, that's what you did with Shb, so go all the way! More embarrassingly, this desire never to violate the player is symptomatic of a global approach to AAA today. FFXIV is just one example. This can be felt in the gameplay (too simple, not punitive enough) and in the stories (padded, as if we were in a cocoon of kindness). The result is very consensual content, which is good as a pastime but mediocre as a game.

Just to temper things, because if I read my own post I'd be inclined to reply: "But why are you still on the game, exactly?" I liked Endwalker, I repeat myself, and I find that indeed some people are a bit harsh. But it's nowhere near what it could have been, and that's what annoys me a bit about this expansion.

[Merrigan]

One other examples come to mind, just so I can get it out of my system: Zenos is, in many ways, a kind of metaphor for what WOL could have been if it had remained on its own. A monster lost in his solitude and his quest for power, devoid of a clear and defined goal (which is what the scions give us). This theme should have been pushed to the end. In the same way that the game didn't dare inflict the consequences of light absorption on us in Shb, it carefully avoids dealing with the obvious: the WOL is a monster in his own right, in terms of power, because they have killed far too many people to stay "pure" and "innocent".

[CStrife912]

I personally liked Endwalker main scenario for the most part, I do wish Garlemald lasted longer for instance. I mean outside of that patch story was a little meh, I did miss a large duty zone but I will praise them for the abundance of QoL and additions they put in place for the new player experience. There is a lot of work they’ve done to make it much easier for people to get through content and now I think Dawntrail if we are to believe them at their word is now going back to the mmo routes. I have a feeling this is going to be another stormblood expansion as in average storage but a great content cycle and I am ok with that.

[Nighthawky2010]

It was perfect that more difficult themes were tackled. Please, enough with the preening of absolutely everything and anything. We've already got it in the gameplay, with classes that must "avoid stress" at all costs as soon as they're anything other than dps; let's not start taking away the rare moments when MSQ isn't an ode to friendship. Video games are not designed to suit the escapism of players who want to take refuge from harsh reality. It can be so much more than that...

As for the OP: I really enjoyed Endwalker, but I think the theme in general should have been harder. Some themes are only sketched out, when they could have led to really interesting reflection. But, precisely to suit an audience that seems to be defined by default as ultra-sensitive, the game refuses to venture into this area. Which is a pity, given the general tone of this extension. Personally, that's what bothered me on several occasions: this sort of impression that the game is straddling the fence, then censoring itself at the last minute to suit a wider audience. It left me with an impression... of unfinished?

An example: the moment when we cause the death of the young girl and her sister, because they flee when we come to Garlemald. A very good passage, but where's the questioning of our interventionism? When do we point out that it's completely stupid to act in this way after decades of war, and by sending the warrior of light who must pass, in these regions, for a potential genocidaire? The game skims the surface of a very interesting theme, then retropedals with a meager "oh, that's sad". Lucia tells us, I think, that she's "sorry we had to witness that... Huh? No, just yell at us, tell us that coming face to face with a small, obviously indoctrinated village was bound to end this way. Address the fact that the "good" and "bad" sides are just illusions; after all, that's what you did with Shb, so go all the way! More embarrassingly, this desire never to violate the player is symptomatic of a global approach to AAA today. FFXIV is just one example. This can be felt in the gameplay (too simple, not punitive enough) and in the stories (padded, as if we were in a cocoon of kindness). The result is very consensual content, which is good as a pastime but mediocre as a game.

Just to temper things, because if I read my own post I'd be inclined to reply: "But why are you still on the game, exactly?" I liked Endwalker, I repeat myself, and I find that indeed some people are a bit harsh. But it's nowhere near what it could have been, and that's what annoys me a bit about this expansion.

Well, you can disagree with my comment. I love EW but I was just saying that some of the aspects of the story were too heavy for some players which probably turned them off from the game. If a player knew someone who committed suicide in real life, then that might hit them hard seeing it in a game. BTW I do play the game to escape. Thats why I am going to enjoy DT, to escape.

[hynaku]

I sure didn't care for Endwalkers story or its duties. I liked them so much that I have never unlocked one of its raids or ran any of its duties more than once.

[Merrigan]

Well, you can disagree with my comment. I love EW but I was just saying that some of the aspects of the story were too heavy for some players which probably turned them off from the game. If a player knew someone who committed suicide in real life, then that might hit them hard seeing it in a game. BTW I do play the game to escape. Thats why I am going to enjoy DT, to escape.

I sincerely believe that this type of audience is a problem. Because by assuming that video games should only ever be a form of pleasurable escapade, we're stifling the medium, which no longer has a future. It wouldn't occur to anyone to claim that literature should only deal with pleasurable themes (... Although; in view of certain polemics in the US, I'm beginning to doubt it), so why claim it for videogamess?

As for the rest, we all have our traumas. It's impossible to avoid them all, except by presenting a game that's all rainbows and kittens.

[Souljacker]

The Final Days felt like a big nothingburger by the end, and I really dislike how much they lean on nostalgia without delivering.

I've been catching up on patches in anticipation of Dawntrail, and stuff like Alzadaal was beyond disappointing. I was excited, thinking oh wow we're going to get the undersea ruins and they will make up for Deep Dungeon being the mobile phone equivalent of Nyzul Isle, and then it was just another shitty 4 man dungeon. And then going further, here's our obvious rip off of the Shadow Lord, but don't worry it's all just gonna be another 4 man dungeon. At least that one had an epic remix at the end. I did really enjoy that. Still have a few more quests to do, maybe the storyline will redeem itself

I'm just getting tired of this game's sad attempts to nod to the XI players with really uninspired 'content'. I'm bored with 4 man dungeons that have 3-4 trash pulls then 3 bosses with telegraphs so obvious I've yet to wipe to one of them unless I'm really not paying attention. I'm tired of getting that nudge - oh you remember this amazing content you played for years? Here, take this! And then it's more of the same uninspired dungeons and raids that are really just uninspired copies of what Wow and other mmos did.

I really hope Dawntrail improves the formula and gives us something... different.

That is, if I can ever manage to secure my copy. 5 days going now, still can't get through the storefront.

*sigh*.

[Silverquick]

I enjoyed EW. I do at times think MSQ was too heavy for some players with the suicide scene, mother & baby dying, etc.
There are some aspects EW that could have been done better but overall I liked & enjoyed EW.

It's actually kinda the opposite, it was so overdone it was actually cringeworthy and unrealistic, nor did it fit or show any real character development in the NPCs. ie... it felt really forced. The other problem was the storyline injected all kinds of things that don't gel with previous history or looked more like copouts on previous plot hooks. There were a lot of things. At times it felt like it retconned the whole basis of FF at that point.


To the OP: You have to understand there are a lot of people that have played this game since the beginning and remember the original plotline, and because this particular MMO was story based... it is judged heavily on it. Particularly because some of the previous expansions had such spectacular (and even realistic) storylines that drew people in. So the Devs are judged heavily on this, and compared to themselves. Which is a pretty high standard considering previous works.

[Boblawblah]

I think you'll find OP, that most players really enjoyed EW overall. The longer after any expansion releases though, you'll find that a lot more people will speak out about the weaknesses of it. These forums, and certain subreddits in particular are even more critical of the game, because generally, that's where the more hardcore players are, and they're more likely to be critical of the game. (not that that's a bad thing, it is what it is).

For me, I think of the expansion as the big release, everything "post" expansion, I separate in my head, and I'll gladly admit, post-Endwalker has been weak imo, and to be fair, the post part of the expansion is the longest part of it timewise, so it makes sense that people focus on that a lot.

Still a fun game though

[Khryseis_Astra]

One thing I will give only flak for is the Relic Weapons though. Yes, we've heard that a million times. What they did this expansion just wasn't right. Where as with Shadowbringers relics we were all going to new and old content alike, breathing life into parts of the game that might not have seen much action otherwise, Endwalker told us to just... Play. Sure I can do that, but isn't it better to give your players a journey to actually undergo? Being as simple as just playing the game makes it feel as if there's no reason to really do much during this break period. Content that doesn't see much action is laying there dusty on the shelf, and the new content they introduced is seeing less action than it could- I still haven't made it to the bottom of Eureka Orthos. Maybe I would have done that by now if I had more of an incentive to do it.

I’m currently going back and getting an Anima weapon, and it strikes me just how similar it is to the current Manderville weapons, the only difference being having to grind for an insane amount of Poetics rather than Astronomy. And unlike the Manderville weapons, there’s a prescribed list of dungeons (many ARR) you have to go through during its stages. At least the Manderville weapons let you pick and choose from more roulettes and current content! To say nothing of all the bits of stuff you need to collect along the way. The one plus is that a few (very few!) can be bought from tribal vendors and GC seals.

I agree that the relics that had an exploratory zone were better… I love Eureka and Bozja, and I’ve ironically been grinding my Poetics in CLL because that ends up being the fastest way: 500 a run! But usually I see people saying we need to go back to Zodiac or Anima type grinds, and it puzzles me how they think that’s so much better than Manderville. I think the free choice of how you got the Astronomy tomes has made people forget that those relics were essentially the same kind of grind, with less choice involved. Maybe if they had given it a gimmick like Skyfire books or light farming to disguise it? lol

I’m looking forward to the next zone, especially if they tie it into the relic again. But I’m hoping they’ll simplify the grind for additional weapons. I don’t mind a grind for the first one, but I play multiple classes and don’t want to feel like I’m rerunning the same grind over again. SHB let you skip a few steps for subsequent weapons but not enough for my tastes.

Back to the main topic though, I loved EW, and I kinda consider it SHB Part 2. It was always meant to tie up the loose ends of a 10-year story arc, so I can see why some people weren’t as excited by it. Especially those who just skipped straight to the end… But for a lore geek like me, who plays for the story first and foremost, it was a satisfying conclusion. I fully expect to hear similar complaints about Dawntrail in the end, because it’s going to be setting up a new story.