Uncapped AoE is ruining PvP Frontline/Rival Wings

[Scintilla]

simply back away.

If we followed the theory of 'just run away if Guard is CD' then you would spend the entire match just running away which, as I already mentioned is not the way to win FLs.

Guard CD is 30sec. Salted Earth is also a 30sec CD.
So, following your suggestion:
DRK uses Salted Earth, the target team Guard, they then have to avoid conflict while Guard is on cooldown. During this time, the DRK team grab an easy node with minimal competition. By the time the target team can return to the fight properly, the DRK is all ready to voke again. Repeat. This assuming the team only has a single DRK. What of those with multiple DRKs, able to voke almost continuously?

Obviously, being a 1v1v1 game, there is the third team to consider in this. They may decide to fight the offending team, giving the other team time to wait for CD - but multiple DRKs can easily ensure a voke is available whenever they do return from their 'cooldown wait'. They may also choose to keep to themselves and let the others fight, or may instead decide to target the victim team.

All in all 'just run away if you don't have Guard' is not a viable option. For individuals, it's possible to be more cautious if Guard is on cooldown. But if it affects vast numbers of the alliance (which it often can with DRK vokes, particularly in some zones), having practically a whole team just run away repeatedly, posing no competition at all isn't the way to win. Again - you're either giving them the win by death or mass evacuation. The outcome is the same, just the method is different.

do as much as you can to disrupt the DRK wombo combos so that your teammates have a chance

Suggestions?

MNK - Nice stuns/knockbacks. Most helpful in platformed areas, like the centre podium of Onsal, but otherwise, limited use. To jump into no-mans-land and stun the DRK while an army of recklessly confident BH5 alliance are immediately behind them and your own team are likely already beginning to split. It will delay them slightly and make yourself a nuisance. But usually that's all. And it would often mean death for yourself.

RPR / DNC LBs - RPR is quite a fast CD and less cast-time warning, so probably the most viable of the two, but again, unless you can somehow chain them (requiring your own premade), it only delays the inevitable.

WAR - Group stun to delay the approaching alliance or DRK, whichever your target. But to stun/drag the DRK, again only makes yourself a nuisance, delaying the attack by a second or two. To stun the wider alliance behind the DRK still leaves your team dead - just saves more kills for the premade DRGs.

SGE - LB is nice to cancel damage from premade DRGs and any ranged. But a very long CD and would require a decent and aware SGE on each alliance to make enough of a difference.

[Nubrication]

If we followed the theory of 'just run away if Guard is CD' then you would spend the entire match just running away which...

I didn't word my previous post properly: running away and backing out are two different things in regards to PvP. Let's say you're playing a melee class, if you still have purify, you can still be in mid range (not deep into the enemy but close enough to hit an enemy close to your ball of death) and try to pick off one of their tanks or melee that's closer to your group then their own. Also, let's say in Onsal, your Guard is down but both teams (yours and 1 enemy team) are fighting for one of the side nodes, if you have teammates near you, you can literally use a dash skill to jump in, hit the person trying to cap and then back out. You should be good as long as you have purify and teammates near you. If a DRK death ball is right on top of the node fighting your team, it's not longer your job to stop the cap - it's the ranged peeps on your team. 1 MCH can plant a well placed turret and literally stop the enemy team from capping for 10 secs.

Running = actually leaving the fight.
Backing out= being in the vicinity (but not smack dab in the middle) and doing what you can from a safer distance.

But if the enemy team DID wipe out your frontlines, yeah you lost that node, just let them cap it. It's better than feeding them more BH. If you're in Seal Rock, you can always recap it later. If you're in Onsal, there's nothing much you can do at that point. Because if you're ranged (or if your guard AND purify are both down) = you're squishy = you just delaying them a few seconds but feeding them BH. They're still going to get the node. Of course there are different scenarios, there's always a chance that you might get reinforcements in time. But be situationally aware and use your best judgement.

Guard CD is 30sec. Salted Earth is also a 30sec CD.
So, following your suggestion:
DRK uses Salted Earth, the target team Guard, they then have to avoid conflict while Guard is on cooldown. During this time, the DRK team grab an easy node with minimal competition...

Most DRKs (except good players in premades) won't even salted earth more than a few players if people don't clump up (which is only difficult in the middle of Onsal). If you're in a good position before the DRK even jumps in, it's easier for you to get out. Good players are aware of their characters positioning (which actually matters more than most people think) and aware of enemy DRKs. To be prepared = higher chances of survival. Obviously the DRK isn't gonna catch the ranged unless they're dumb enough to be in melee range when they DON'T NEED to be. And most DRKs don't catch the ranged, so the ranged can hit the cappers (this of course won't work in every situation). Obviously there's so many nuances, it'll take an entire book to write down every different situation and how to prepare and react to it for every job. But the general idea is = BE SITUATIONALLY AWARE: have your map open, know where the good enemy DRKs are, see if the other alliance is missing from the map, etc. Most of this comes from experience but if you're situationally aware, you can be better prepared and LASTLY: react better. Reacting to a DRK dive that's already happening = usually already too late.

[Nubrication]

MNK - Nice stuns/knockbacks...

My question is: why would you jump into their group, when you know the DRK is eventually going to jump into yours? Solution: Wait for DRK to jump (don't get succed in or binded) give it a few milliseconds and he'll probably pop Eventide. You have to predict when he's going to use it, so use your best judgement. So after he jumps in, you dash in as a MNK, stun and knock him back out of the arena. Eventide brings him to 1HP, if you time your knockback properly, you can still kill him with fall damage. Fall damage ignores Eventide's immunity to death. This requires situational awareness.

RPR / DNC LBs - RPR is quite a fast CD and less cast-time warning...

These are the two that're hardest to escape from when in combination with a DRK. Your best option in this instance is to have the RPR or DNC marked so you know where they are and sprint away as soon as you see them coming towards you. After they pop their LBs, hopefully your team has enough people left to mount a counter attack. THE BEST TIME FOR A COUNTER ATTACK is right after the enemy premade does their burst, they'll have almost nothing left. That's assuming you survive the initial attack. Also, ranged players can cc the RPR and DNC before they get close (you'll probably have to be in melee range and risk dying BUT it will mess up their timing with the DRK). If the wombo combos are out of sync, more people will generally survive.

WAR - Group stun to delay the approaching alliance or DRK, whichever your target...

This one is easy. Be situationally aware and don't clump up to begin with.

SGE - LB is nice to cancel damage from premade DRGs and any ranged. But a very long CD...

SGE is fun if played properly and most people don't know how. There's no point using SGE LB defensively unless you have godlike reaction speed. Because you don't want to use it simply because a DRK jumps in, what if he was just baiting your CDs? The best use of SGE LB I think, is offensively. In conjunction with your own DRK (hopefully you have a good one on your team).


Of course everything I mentioned has nuances and different situations will require different responses. But if you're prepared and you know what to expect from the enemy, then you'll be better prepared to react better and properly. I play every class in PvP but MNK is one of my favorites, and I can do 10+kills with 0 deaths consistently in FL. I've also played the Feast, the Fold, CC, and have been playing FL since it's inception with Secure waaay back in the day. Take what you will from my post, or completely ignore it. Cheers.

P.S. just to clarify: this is all only in regards to FL.