Giant boss hitboxes and constant mid teleports make melee less fun.

[Tizzy_Tormentor]

I went into Neo Exdeath with some friends last night and I was genuinely taken aback by how small his hitbox was, if this was an Endwalker fight, his hitbox would have encompassed half the arena, but for Neo, the hitbox is very contained to the boss itself. I compared it to P8S and the difference is absolutely wild.

Puts into perspective just HOW much they have pivoted in fight design when it comes to boss hitboxes, especially for wall bosses.

[Valence]

Because people are allergic to casts, next expansion SMN is gonna unlock the Z axis and float above mechanics, the hitboxes are gonna get bigger and everyone will finally achieve range physical status. Uptime? Planning movement? nah press button that lights up

I'm allergic to real casts, that's why I don't play a caster. But I can deal with the occasional cast, or the half cast hybrids from pvp, etc, because it's different, but don't ask me to play rphys like bow mage used to be, or like BLM/RDM.

I'll say it and get out of the closet, I want the great return of full procs on rphys beyond just bard, with more intricate random solutions and priorities to manage. That used to be a big part of rphys and what made the rotations demanding (often causing tunnel vision). I don't get why we're getting half melee simulacrums (DNC) today, or full melee that play at range (MCH).

[Lyth]

Casts simplify gameplay more than anything. This game is so scripted that you never have to cancel anything. You just end up replacing mechanical execution with a turn-based game where you move (or teleport, nowadays) to fixed, predetermined points at scripted timestamps.

I don't think Physical Ranged actually needs anything additional to be more complex than Magical Ranged. The relative lack of movement actions outside of DNC is baffling to me, though. It feels like Casters are paradoxically more mobile.

[ThorneDynasty]

It still follows a design that pits roles against each other because for some reason we need roles that are harder and roles that are easier.

I don't get why people are so allergic to having an equal spread of difficulty, and playing on skill floors and ceilings instead of going for that crap.

No one is saying there needs to be no difficulty in ranged DPS. But the fact is they will never have the additional challenge of positioning melee has, don't you agree? Let my further simplify this for you:

Let's say because of the positionals and positioning concerns, the a melee does 70% of the average damage and a good one does 130%. Let's say a bad ranged player does 80% vs. 120%. Is a good ranged player now somehow as worthless as a bad one? Obviously not.

I mean, what is the alternative? Just remove positionals and make boss hitboxes even larger, just so that a ranged player doesn't feel inadequate not being able to so express their skill level the same way a melee does? Let's get rid of all casting as well, surely it's "unfair" BLM get to "show off" doing the same or better damage you do despite an additional constraint. Equalize the damage completely, so there's not point at all to bringing melee jobs?

Or maybe you should be instead demanding SE to make your rotations more involved.

[Valence]

Casts simplify gameplay more than anything. This game is so scripted that you never have to cancel anything. You just end up replacing mechanical execution with a turn-based game where you move (or teleport, nowadays) to fixed, predetermined points at scripted timestamps.

I don't think Physical Ranged actually needs anything additional to be more complex than Magical Ranged. The relative lack of movement actions outside of DNC is baffling to me, though. It feels like Casters are paradoxically more mobile.

I'm a big fan of turn based tactical games, and maybe it's just me, but this ain't it. I hate casters with a burning passion. Starting a cast only to get it interrupted by mechanics happens to me. Maybe it doesn't happen to you, but it does to me, and I hate it. It makes me have to plan ahead and know the fight script, which boils down to learn DDR/guitar hero even more and that's not what I find interesting. This is furthest from tactical turn based that I can think of. It's just learning a script.

I like choices on the spot, I like decisions and agency during a fight. A cast being interrupted by a mechanic or something happening is already too late to adjust most of the time, you need to cancel it, make a note in your mind to adjust next run, which kinda works in savage considering you're gonna pull hundred of times and do the same thing again and again and again, but even when I actually have to do that on rphys itself, like delaying songs, holding on some cooldowns, etc, already frustrates me because I need to not forget about doing it every time, so if you multiply this by a thousand little moments due to casting? No thanks. I hate it. That's why I don't play caster, but good for you if that's your jam.

It's also the opposite reason why I don't play melee, I don't like action games with positionals. I like priorities and tactical choices. I like rng.

No one is saying there needs to be no difficulty in ranged DPS. But the fact is they will never have the additional challenge of positioning melee has, don't you agree? Let my further simplify this for you:

Let's say because of the positionals and positioning concerns, the a melee does 70% of the average damage and a good one does 130%. Let's say a bad ranged player does 80% vs. 120%. Is a good ranged player now somehow as worthless as a bad one? Obviously not.

I mean, what is the alternative? Just remove positionals and make boss hitboxes even larger, just so that a ranged player doesn't feel inadequate not being able to so express their skill level the same way a melee does? Let's get rid of all casting as well, surely it's "unfair" BLM get to "show off" doing the same or better damage you do despite an additional constraint. Equalize the damage completely, so there's not point at all to bringing melee jobs?

Or maybe you should be instead demanding SE to make your rotations more involved.

You know, if the only way you have found to start your post is with "let me further simplify this for you", it's already gone to a bad start...

Alternatives have been suggested already, I don't feel the need to repeat myself over it. I think at this point this has gone down the road of disingenuity because some people are actually not open to something specific to rphys that brings up complexity or difficulty, because they just like the current state of things where they can crap on the role and have it do less damage.

[SalamanderIX]

Everything OP mentioned but also...

I really do not like the visual of punching the air. I don't expect to have the visual of weapons hitting the enemy, but "close enough" and not say 30 feet away does a lot to sell it as a battle and not something more abstract that is presented as such.

[ZiraZ]

Alternatives have been suggested already, I don't feel the need to repeat myself over it. I think at this point this has gone down the road of disingenuity because some people are actually not open to something specific to rphys that brings up complexity or difficulty, because they just like the current state of things where they can crap on the role and have it do less damage.

Wasn't SB MCH one of the least played jobs ever? I don't think most people want complex rphys, in fact I think the rphys community at large despises complex rotations, I barely played back then but I do remember the never ending bitching about wildfire ping and bullets among other things, there is also zero mention by the devs about any rework so this is what you're gonna get for a while.
Also everything Thorne said is sound, but remember your competition here is "casters" not melee and this is a melee thread.

[Lyth]

?

When I'm saying that it's turn-based, I don't mean in a clever sense. I'm talking pre-ATB era turn-based Final Fantasy where you get to grab a coffee before deciding on your next action.

I know that Casters have trained you for years to believe that your gameplay is less skilled than theirs, but it really isn't. Everything in this game is scripted. There are no on-the-fly tactics or strategy. You will know fights on a GCD by GCD basis by the time you are done.

[kayll]

When I'm saying that it's turn-based, I don't mean in a clever sense. I'm talking pre-ATB era turn-based Final Fantasy where you get to grab a coffee before deciding on your next action.

I know that Casters have trained you for years to believe that your gameplay is less skilled than theirs, but it really isn't. Everything in this game is scripted. There are no on-the-fly tactics or strategy. You will know fights on a GCD by GCD basis by the time you are done.

None of the classes in this game are hard, they are all pretty easy and have pretty low APM, they've placed all the difficulty into the bosses themselves, but basically every mechanic in the game is move and stand in X spot before you explode, now move and stand in Y spot before you explode.

When every mechanic is movement based, which type of class do you think would have more difficulty maintaining their rotation while doing said mechanics?
Yes you can learn the fight by heart eventually but which classes would have more to consider when planning the fight out?
Those that can just run around non-stop while doing their rotation or those who have to preemptively move into safe spots every mechanic to not diminish their DPS?

[Lyth]

Context is always important. BLM has played at half the APM of other jobs since at least Heavensward. That means for every one action you perform, another player is executing two.

Movement mechanics affect everyone. Boss movement specifically affects tanks and melee. This is doubly apparent when you add in positional gameplay, because the smallest changes can change boss orientation without altering their position. People specifically seek out melee because they're looking for that additional layer of gameplay detail and depth.