Big fishing is poorly designed and isn't very fun

[Hasrat]

What if I want the Title or finish the Achievement log for example?

You either let go of that desire for an arbitrary and meaningless accomplishment, or you accept the content in the form that some may currently enjoy.

I want a lot of Deep Dungeon stuff, but I'm not out here asking to implement Duty Support for it or give it solo echo buffs etc. I accept the content is designed with intention and is overall fair, it's simply content design I'm not thoroughly invested in engaging with.

Like. You keep bringing up fish windows at bad hours for you. For you. The fish are up at the same time for everybody, time zones exist. What works for you won't work for someone else. And, more importantly, there are always more windows. You keep trying to "fix" a problem you are responsible for subjecting yourself to. Just go to bed and try catching the fish at another time. There is literally nothing about virtual fishing that is ever worth disrupting your sleep or work or whatever else.

[PotatoTree]

Like. You keep bringing up fish windows at bad hours for you. For you. The fish are up at the same time for everybody, time zones exist. What works for you won't work for someone else. And, more importantly, there are always more windows. You keep trying to "fix" a problem you are responsible for subjecting yourself to. Just go to bed and try catching the fish at another time. There is literally nothing about virtual fishing that is ever worth disrupting your sleep or work or whatever else.

I literally gave a suggestion in the post you quote that fixes the problem for everyone, while maintaining whatever arbitrarily long window SE wants.

You either let go of that desire for an arbitrary and meaningless accomplishment, or you accept the content in the form that some may currently enjoy.

I'm still completely in my right to complain. After all, that's what these forums are for, and devs won't know their content is not good if nobody ever complains.

So far all I hear is "the content is what it is, just deal with it". Surely you'd desire for the game to improve and not to drive people away right? There is absolutely nothing wrong with asking from improvements on a forum dedicated to discussing these topics. And really the even the biggest SE supporter or fishing supporter can see that some of these mechanics are very anti-fun.

Anyway, I've already mentioned that in the end it's all pointless. Of course the next sub cycle my solution is to unsub, but since I do still support the game the devs deserves to know why I decided to unsub. To a good dev player feedback is more valuable than the actual sub.

I'd feel like your points would have more weight if this game wasn't a subscription game, but needing to wait for additional windows due to bad timezones is literally costing players money. Maybe that was SE's intent, but surely you agree that keeping people subbed through arbitrary time locks instead of engaging content is really bad form?

[fulminating]

I'm still completely in my right to complain. After all, that's what these forums are for, and devs won't know their content is not good if nobody ever complains.

I would be upset if someone eg changed summoner from a pet and dot based caster to a vfx lightshow single button masher phys ranged. Some people enjoy big fishing for what it is despite the flaws and asinine decisions - for example the other recently active thread suggesting that maybe it is a mistake to have the common window rare scrip fish as an intuition requirement for the rare window one.

And to answer the quoted question, a large part of me believes their current purpose is a lightning rod or containment board for negativity so twitter etc can lean more saccharine.

[Tint]

So far all I hear is "the content is what it is, just deal with it". Surely you'd desire for the game to improve and not to drive people away right? There is absolutely nothing wrong with asking from improvements on a forum dedicated to discussing these topics. And really the even the biggest SE supporter or fishing supporter can see that some of these mechanics are very anti-fun.

Of course I want improvements. But you are not asking for imporovements, you are asking for a complete rework. Of course people who enjoy the current gameplay are telling you to just look for something else.

It also didn't looked like you were here to discuss things, when you basically dismissed any other opinion right from the start:

TLDR: Big fishing is not fun, does not respect the players time, and anyone who says otherwise has some Stockholm syndrome.

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When I finish this stupid achievement it won't be pride I feel, only anger that it took so long when it could have taken so much less time.

You know, I cleared Coils of Bahamut back in ARR and this was exactly how I felt. No pride, just glad it was finally over.

And after that I started with big fishing and finished the fishlog back then before HW released. And it was the most fun I ever had in this game. And I stopped raiding. People simply enjoy different things.

[Fruity_Snacks]

... needing to wait for additional windows due to bad timezones is literally costing players money. Maybe that was SE's intent, but surely you agree that keeping people subbed through arbitrary time locks instead of engaging content is really bad form?

I'm just going to drop in and say that what might be a bad time for you or others in your timezone is perfect for another player in another region. What might be bad for Europe might be perfect for Japan. What's bad for Japan, would be great. It's a system of time that - while I agree downtimes can suck - has to account for a global audience.

[PotatoTree]

Of course I want improvements. But you are not asking for imporovements, you are asking for a complete rework. Of course people who enjoy the current gameplay are telling you to just look for something else.

I really don't think my suggestions are a "complete rework" as you describe it. The SMN change, PVP changes, diadem changes, etc are complete reworks. In comparison my suggestions are like allowing you to 2 stack certain abilities for better rotation flow in PvE.

It also didn't looked like you were here to discuss things, when you basically dismissed any other opinion right from the start:

I'm not part of the fishing community in any big way so I thought that was just a commonly used joke I as I saw some other big fishing people make this joke before. Anyway, I apologize if it was taken the wrong way.

And after that I started with big fishing and finished the fishlog back then before HW released. And it was the most fun I ever had in this game. And I stopped raiding. People simply enjoy different things.

I also did all big fishing pre HW and caught all the fish, and it was more enjoyable before they added the Egg, Durdina, Whale, etc. They saw "people like rare fish" and went too far with it.

I'm just going to drop in and say that what might be a bad time for you or others in your timezone is perfect for another player in another region. What might be bad for Europe might be perfect for Japan. What's bad for Japan, would be great. It's a system of time that - while I agree downtimes can suck - has to account for a global audience.

I feel like one of my suggestions fixes this with the quest obtainable weekly bait.

Also if it's commonly accept that timezones suck, why not make the window more common?


I'd like to pose one more question to everyone. What do you think is the acceptable standard deviation for big fish capture times?

Ie: for the 90% most lucky fishers and the 90% most unlucky fishers, what is an appropriate gap of time between those two? For some fish, it seems to be bordering on months, which IMO is extremely unfun for those stuck on the bad end of the probability curve.

[Lydia77]

I would love fishing and big fishing as it is if not common problems.
1) some unfair fish with such bizzare requerments it is not fun anymore. 29 days downtime only to get next window 3 am your time? Wait another 6 days i guess. Make it rare bite and slippery as well (hello egg)
2) jailing. enoth said on this topic (stupid whale. Imagine rare bite slippery whale in 7.55)
3) some annoying fish that concentrate a combination of pure design choises all at once. Is it a VERY rare bite? big deal. keep trying. It bites but escapes 46 times in a row (true story. Hello wanderer of.... i call it prismatic b**h). Lame prefish requirements? go ahead. Ill use my accumulated knowledge of every fishing trick there is and get it. But let us combine it all and make ULTIMATE BS fish.
I honesly think that noone test these. Just listen to feedback and fix some of the worst game designs, SE! Jailing is not fun! Waiting for a REAL MONTH is not fun. Wasting 50 hours playing RNG roulette is not fun. And then someone who doesnt know how to hold a fishing pole gets it first try because RNG i guess.
And of course you have to link your lucky catch in /shout chat so we all can feel even *better*.
No i dont think fishing needs a rework. What i want is those responsible for this actually TEST this. And if it turns out to be a disaster - change it one way or another.
P.S. There should be some kind of notification about min gathering level. It is anooying to get salad 2.0 bite after 27 windows only to see the message *you dont have enoth gathering for this* (no it wasnt me)

[Fruity_Snacks]

I would love fishing and big fishing as it is if not common problems.
1) some unfair fish with such bizzare requerments it is not fun anymore. 29 days downtime only to get next window 3 am your time? Wait another 6 days i guess. Make it rare bite and slippery as well (hello egg)
2) jailing. enoth said on this topic (stupid whale. Imagine rare bite slippery whale in 7.55)
3) some annoying fish that concentrate a combination of pure design choises all at once. Is it a VERY rare bite? big deal. keep trying. It bites but escapes 46 times in a

Just a couple little things here.

1) A 29 day downtime has only ever happened 4 times in the history of FFXIV. Of the three fish that have had 29+ day downtimes in those 4 years, two (Bobgoblin Bass and Duskfish) of them can be mitigated by Fish Eyes, which greatly increases the chance of a fish being available. The last one (Ruby Dragon) has really only ever had massive downtimes like that maybe... twice since it was add in 4.56, 5 years ago. If you want to bump it down to 25+ day dowtimes, you bring in Cinder which has only broken that once, maybe twice. So a grand total of 4 fish out of 289. 4 out of 289 don't define a problem, even if half of those 4 are legendary fish.

2) Jailing is a thing that exists that if you do it, that's fine, if you don't, ok. Nothing forces you to do that, and even if you just show up and go for the conditional fish when the window is up, you will still eventually get the fish. I can give you plenty of examples of where people didn't jail for Lancet or Whale and still got int during that window. Fishing is, and has always been, designed to be a feature that slows you down. You don't need to get every fish in a week - and rarely - will you. Allowing yourself to lose sleep or get frustrated at this fact really only makes it worse on yourself.

3) Again, you're pointing out just a few fish, most of which are legendary fish (Warden of the Seven Hues, is the name of the fish you're referring to). Legendary fish take all the rules and throw them together - as you said, they are meant to be the "Ultimates" of fishing. Are they all perfect? No. Do they need to change their MO for legendaries? Probably not.

I think it's silly to assume that these things aren't tested, considering out of the whole 10+ years of FFXIV existing there has only been 2 instances of fishing ever being 'bugged' and only 1 of those could - arguably - be because of lack of testing.

Fishing isn't perfect, but if we're going to be giving feedback out about things, let's at least be giving feedback with better context.

[Lydia77]

Again we come back to your topic: just fish and you get it.
Sure i may jsut go every window possible in hopes of hiting that juicy 0.5% lucky 7 all staars alighn moment. That is not how i and many others go. And my pesonal examples shows how unlucky these windows may be. i spent more than 30 hours combined geting phallaina. If i didnt jail myself it would mean 30+ windows of a whale which are 1-6 days apart from each other. That is a no-no.
Despite 29+ days being an exception rather than a rule we still remember it. And some of these fishies still have 4-7 average downtime (hello salad). It is not fun to wait for a real week hoping you hit that 1% chance. That is if its not 3 AM your time. I dont ask to make this fish easier. Make the windows more common. I know Duskfish holds the record of downtime. And we dont care because its an easy catch. Waiting for months just to try and get one only to meet a real BS like an egg or lancet is not FUN.
Some people spend 90% of their playtime on fishing only. Sure. have *fun* with it. But some of us have other stuff to do. I want to have it done eventually. I dont want to spend half a year fishing (pun intended) for 1% chance. Especially knowing my luck. I want to have more chances to go for it. I dont want to cancell all my IG and IRL activities to go for a fish, knowing that if i will ignore it i will have to wait for 5 days and it will be mid of the night for me. so 5 more days after that.
You may compare it to pve endgame but you can do that one whenever you want. As for fishing - game decides when i can try it. If i cant participate - too bad! Better luck next week.
As for jailing, fishing is pure RNG. All we can do is manipulate that RNG to a bit. Use tricks. come 20 min earlier and prefish. Hold HQ mooch till the window starts, slap the right one, use collectable trick etc. Jailing is one of those tricks as well. come earlier to catch the required fish so you can get on to it as soon as possible. As for your logic we dont have to get fisher intuition stacks. We dont have to surface slap. we dont have to count / macro countdowns. Just come in, cast a line and hope. No. Thats is not the way to go.
If you want to have super rare fish - let me try it for a resonable time period. I will be OK with something like an egg if i can try it once a day. I will be fine with a whale if i can try it once a week guaranteed.
You saying "you dont have to jail" is like saying you can choose not to fish at all.

[UkcsAlias]

1) A 29 day downtime has only ever happened 4 times in the history of FFXIV. Of the three fish that have had 29+ day downtimes in those 4 years, two (Bobgoblin Bass and Duskfish) of them can be mitigated by Fish Eyes, which greatly increases the chance of a fish being available. The last one (Ruby Dragon) has really only ever had massive downtimes like that maybe... twice since it was add in 4.56, 5 years ago. If you want to bump it down to 25+ day dowtimes, you bring in Cinder which has only broken that once, maybe twice. So a grand total of 4 fish out of 289. 4 out of 289 don't define a problem, even if half of those 4 are legendary fish.

the max downtime thing is completely irrelevant though, we have to talk about averages.

For an average person with average workday, of the 24h per day, 70% is gone (work/sleep/travel). Any argument about planning is NOT an option here as i already considered the entire 30% of free time as plannable. And since it can be done days ahead, its reliable on that end at least

Its still just a game, so pushing it in front of IRL stuff is generaly bad. Now ofc, there is a social aspect that can demand more specific online times as well, and special events etc that can motivate you to plan the game in front of IRL, but doing this for something RNG oriented is a very bad and unhealthy choise. So for this, we must assume only free time is available here.

Since only 30% of the day has an option, and the moments are equaly spread. This makes an average of once per 2 days in opportunities turn out closer to 16 days. While long, for opportunities and a dedicated person, its still well managable as long as its only for a very limited number of fish.

The more fish with such condition, the more opportunities will be spread upon the free space. Sure, a certain one might have a 20 day gap for you, but 3 other fish might have 3x the number of attempts instead. Its truly only anoying when its your last fish, but still well managable.

The 29day case for someone with just 3h a day might have only resulted in 30 or 31 days of a gap. Everyone suffered equal here, and hence its fair.