Big fishing is poorly designed and isn't very fun

[Hasrat]

Have you considered the idea that if it is not fun for you, you don't need to engage with it, rather than trying to take away what might be fun for others?

[PotatoTree]

Have you considered the idea that if it is not fun for you, you don't need to engage with it, rather than trying to take away what might be fun for others?

What if I want the Title or finish the Achievement log for example? And it's not like I'm saying give it to me for free, I'm willing to go through the content to get it.

However it's also perfectly ok for me to say rolling a 500 sided dice at 4am in the morning to get such a reward is not fun. Yet even then I'm not saying to delete it from the game, I'm offering you suggestions on how to make rolling this dice fun. Cause right now looking at it in any objective way this is poorly designed.

Here's an example that would fix the issue, instead of a 2 week window that opens up a 4am, give players a weekly they can do every week to get a drop. After 2 drops the player can trade for a bait they can use at any time. If the devs wanted to artificially time limit us with these 2 week windows to get more subs, then that is still there, but now the player doesn't need to get up at 4am or miss a window due to work. Is that not acceptable?

[Hasrat]

What if I want the Title or finish the Achievement log for example?

You either let go of that desire for an arbitrary and meaningless accomplishment, or you accept the content in the form that some may currently enjoy.

I want a lot of Deep Dungeon stuff, but I'm not out here asking to implement Duty Support for it or give it solo echo buffs etc. I accept the content is designed with intention and is overall fair, it's simply content design I'm not thoroughly invested in engaging with.

Like. You keep bringing up fish windows at bad hours for you. For you. The fish are up at the same time for everybody, time zones exist. What works for you won't work for someone else. And, more importantly, there are always more windows. You keep trying to "fix" a problem you are responsible for subjecting yourself to. Just go to bed and try catching the fish at another time. There is literally nothing about virtual fishing that is ever worth disrupting your sleep or work or whatever else.

[PotatoTree]

Like. You keep bringing up fish windows at bad hours for you. For you. The fish are up at the same time for everybody, time zones exist. What works for you won't work for someone else. And, more importantly, there are always more windows. You keep trying to "fix" a problem you are responsible for subjecting yourself to. Just go to bed and try catching the fish at another time. There is literally nothing about virtual fishing that is ever worth disrupting your sleep or work or whatever else.

I literally gave a suggestion in the post you quote that fixes the problem for everyone, while maintaining whatever arbitrarily long window SE wants.

You either let go of that desire for an arbitrary and meaningless accomplishment, or you accept the content in the form that some may currently enjoy.

I'm still completely in my right to complain. After all, that's what these forums are for, and devs won't know their content is not good if nobody ever complains.

So far all I hear is "the content is what it is, just deal with it". Surely you'd desire for the game to improve and not to drive people away right? There is absolutely nothing wrong with asking from improvements on a forum dedicated to discussing these topics. And really the even the biggest SE supporter or fishing supporter can see that some of these mechanics are very anti-fun.

Anyway, I've already mentioned that in the end it's all pointless. Of course the next sub cycle my solution is to unsub, but since I do still support the game the devs deserves to know why I decided to unsub. To a good dev player feedback is more valuable than the actual sub.

I'd feel like your points would have more weight if this game wasn't a subscription game, but needing to wait for additional windows due to bad timezones is literally costing players money. Maybe that was SE's intent, but surely you agree that keeping people subbed through arbitrary time locks instead of engaging content is really bad form?

[fulminating]

I'm still completely in my right to complain. After all, that's what these forums are for, and devs won't know their content is not good if nobody ever complains.

I would be upset if someone eg changed summoner from a pet and dot based caster to a vfx lightshow single button masher phys ranged. Some people enjoy big fishing for what it is despite the flaws and asinine decisions - for example the other recently active thread suggesting that maybe it is a mistake to have the common window rare scrip fish as an intuition requirement for the rare window one.

And to answer the quoted question, a large part of me believes their current purpose is a lightning rod or containment board for negativity so twitter etc can lean more saccharine.

[Tint]

So far all I hear is "the content is what it is, just deal with it". Surely you'd desire for the game to improve and not to drive people away right? There is absolutely nothing wrong with asking from improvements on a forum dedicated to discussing these topics. And really the even the biggest SE supporter or fishing supporter can see that some of these mechanics are very anti-fun.

Of course I want improvements. But you are not asking for imporovements, you are asking for a complete rework. Of course people who enjoy the current gameplay are telling you to just look for something else.

It also didn't looked like you were here to discuss things, when you basically dismissed any other opinion right from the start:

TLDR: Big fishing is not fun, does not respect the players time, and anyone who says otherwise has some Stockholm syndrome.

----

When I finish this stupid achievement it won't be pride I feel, only anger that it took so long when it could have taken so much less time.

You know, I cleared Coils of Bahamut back in ARR and this was exactly how I felt. No pride, just glad it was finally over.

And after that I started with big fishing and finished the fishlog back then before HW released. And it was the most fun I ever had in this game. And I stopped raiding. People simply enjoy different things.

[Fruity_Snacks]

... needing to wait for additional windows due to bad timezones is literally costing players money. Maybe that was SE's intent, but surely you agree that keeping people subbed through arbitrary time locks instead of engaging content is really bad form?

I'm just going to drop in and say that what might be a bad time for you or others in your timezone is perfect for another player in another region. What might be bad for Europe might be perfect for Japan. What's bad for Japan, would be great. It's a system of time that - while I agree downtimes can suck - has to account for a global audience.

[PotatoTree]

Of course I want improvements. But you are not asking for imporovements, you are asking for a complete rework. Of course people who enjoy the current gameplay are telling you to just look for something else.

I really don't think my suggestions are a "complete rework" as you describe it. The SMN change, PVP changes, diadem changes, etc are complete reworks. In comparison my suggestions are like allowing you to 2 stack certain abilities for better rotation flow in PvE.

It also didn't looked like you were here to discuss things, when you basically dismissed any other opinion right from the start:

I'm not part of the fishing community in any big way so I thought that was just a commonly used joke I as I saw some other big fishing people make this joke before. Anyway, I apologize if it was taken the wrong way.

And after that I started with big fishing and finished the fishlog back then before HW released. And it was the most fun I ever had in this game. And I stopped raiding. People simply enjoy different things.

I also did all big fishing pre HW and caught all the fish, and it was more enjoyable before they added the Egg, Durdina, Whale, etc. They saw "people like rare fish" and went too far with it.

I'm just going to drop in and say that what might be a bad time for you or others in your timezone is perfect for another player in another region. What might be bad for Europe might be perfect for Japan. What's bad for Japan, would be great. It's a system of time that - while I agree downtimes can suck - has to account for a global audience.

I feel like one of my suggestions fixes this with the quest obtainable weekly bait.

Also if it's commonly accept that timezones suck, why not make the window more common?


I'd like to pose one more question to everyone. What do you think is the acceptable standard deviation for big fish capture times?

Ie: for the 90% most lucky fishers and the 90% most unlucky fishers, what is an appropriate gap of time between those two? For some fish, it seems to be bordering on months, which IMO is extremely unfun for those stuck on the bad end of the probability curve.

[Lydia77]

I would love fishing and big fishing as it is if not common problems.
1) some unfair fish with such bizzare requerments it is not fun anymore. 29 days downtime only to get next window 3 am your time? Wait another 6 days i guess. Make it rare bite and slippery as well (hello egg)
2) jailing. enoth said on this topic (stupid whale. Imagine rare bite slippery whale in 7.55)
3) some annoying fish that concentrate a combination of pure design choises all at once. Is it a VERY rare bite? big deal. keep trying. It bites but escapes 46 times in a row (true story. Hello wanderer of.... i call it prismatic b**h). Lame prefish requirements? go ahead. Ill use my accumulated knowledge of every fishing trick there is and get it. But let us combine it all and make ULTIMATE BS fish.
I honesly think that noone test these. Just listen to feedback and fix some of the worst game designs, SE! Jailing is not fun! Waiting for a REAL MONTH is not fun. Wasting 50 hours playing RNG roulette is not fun. And then someone who doesnt know how to hold a fishing pole gets it first try because RNG i guess.
And of course you have to link your lucky catch in /shout chat so we all can feel even *better*.
No i dont think fishing needs a rework. What i want is those responsible for this actually TEST this. And if it turns out to be a disaster - change it one way or another.
P.S. There should be some kind of notification about min gathering level. It is anooying to get salad 2.0 bite after 27 windows only to see the message *you dont have enoth gathering for this* (no it wasnt me)