New Difficulty Mode Suggestion: (Chaos)

[Gemina]

Adding randomized effects to increase the fight's difficulty would be introducing mechanical changes to an already existing fight. This already happens to a certain extent in the EX/Savage versions of existing NM 8-man encounters. Not necessarily random, but adding additional mechanics not present in the NM fights.

What the Gold Saucer colosseum did was take existing monsters in the world of FFVII and introduce handicaps to the player. Things such as breaking their materia, weapon, armor, etc. In a sense, we have this as well in Deep Dungeon content which also handicaps players by taking away their natural regen, abilities, making the enemies stronger, and so forth.

However, I still like your idea and I think something like a boss rush mode wherein players face random bosses that could essentially be just about any encounter currently in the game that introduces a random handicap that stacks with the handicap from the previous round. You can also give each boss an enrage timer to increase the stakes of each encounter. The handicaps can be anything from level reduction, DoT infliction with increasing potency, stat breaks (ilv reduction), movement speed reduction (making it more difficult to escape enemy telegraphs and positioning, removing items like pots and tinkers, taking away raise, among other things.

Rewards would have to be pretty good that increase in value as the rounds progress and get more difficult due to the handicaps. It would be interesting to let players know what they will win should they succeed so they can make the collective decision to continue, or walk away with their current rewards. If they fail though, they lose everything and get a consolation prize akin to a fete present that more often than not turns into something like a token that can be accumulated and traded to a NPC for an item of their choice that is still somewhat useful.

This could be a new type of treasure map instance. I like this. Make it happen SE.

[Saraide]

Adding randomized effects to increase the fight's difficulty would be introducing mechanical changes to an already existing fight. This already happens to a certain extent in the EX/Savage versions of existing NM 8-man encounters. Not necessarily random, but adding additional mechanics not present in the NM fights.

What the Gold Saucer colosseum did was take existing monsters in the world of FFVII and introduce handicaps to the player. Things such as breaking their materia, weapon, armor, etc. In a sense, we have this as well in Deep Dungeon content which also handicaps players by taking away their natural regen, abilities, making the enemies stronger, and so forth.

However, I still like your idea and I think something like a boss rush mode wherein players face random bosses that could essentially be just about any encounter currently in the game that introduces a random handicap that stacks with the handicap from the previous round. You can also give each boss an enrage timer to increase the stakes of each encounter. The handicaps can be anything from level reduction, DoT infliction with increasing potency, stat breaks (ilv reduction), movement speed reduction (making it more difficult to escape enemy telegraphs and positioning, removing items like pots and tinkers, taking away raise, among other things.

Rewards would have to be pretty good that increase in value as the rounds progress and get more difficult due to the handicaps. It would be interesting to let players know what they will win should they succeed so they can make the collective decision to continue, or walk away with their current rewards. If they fail though, they lose everything and get a consolation prize akin to a fete present that more often than not turns into something like a token that can be accumulated and traded to a NPC for an item of their choice that is still somewhat useful.

This could be a new type of treasure map instance. I like this. Make it happen SE.

I dont think people should be punished for trying and failing. IMO games/gamemodes like this function well and are engaging when you can enter at any time and when you keep rewards/unlocks even if you do fail. We should encourage people to try and go beyond their abilities in a game mode like that.

[Gemina]

I dont think people should be punished for trying and failing. IMO games/gamemodes like this function well and are engaging when you can enter at any time and when you keep rewards/unlocks even if you do fail. We should encourage people to try and go beyond their abilities in a game mode like that.

On the contrary, you accomplish encouraging players to go above and beyond through trial and failure. There is far too much handholding and participation trophies given in this game as is. It has made it stale and strips longevity away from the content. Players absolutely should not be rewarded for failure. Like I said, they can quit after the completion of any round with the rewards they have acquired. Knowing they can try the next round and still keep what they've earned lowers the stakes, and when you reduce the stakes you take away tension along with the motivation to do better and give it your best. This type of content would give the game a run on the treadmill that it seriously needs right now.

[Saraide]

On the contrary, you accomplish encouraging players to go above and beyond through trial and failure. There is far too much handholding and participation trophies given in this game as is. It has made it stale and strips longevity away from the content. Players absolutely should not be rewarded for failure. Like I said, they can quit after the completion of any round with the rewards they have acquired. Knowing they can try the next round and still keep what they've earned lowers the stakes, and when you reduce the stakes you take away tension along with the motivation to do better and give it your best. This type of content would give the game a run on the treadmill that it seriously needs right now.

You should get the rewards for the fights you beat and you dont get the rewards for the fight you dont beat. That's not rewarding failure.

[LianaThorne]

Adding randomized effects to increase the fight's difficulty would be introducing mechanical changes to an already existing fight. This already happens to a certain extent in the EX/Savage versions of existing NM 8-man encounters. Not necessarily random, but adding additional mechanics not present in the NM fights.

What the Gold Saucer colosseum did was take existing monsters in the world of FFVII and introduce handicaps to the player. Things such as breaking their materia, weapon, armor, etc. In a sense, we have this as well in Deep Dungeon content which also handicaps players by taking away their natural regen, abilities, making the enemies stronger, and so forth.

However, I still like your idea and I think something like a boss rush mode wherein players face random bosses that could essentially be just about any encounter currently in the game that introduces a random handicap that stacks with the handicap from the previous round. You can also give each boss an enrage timer to increase the stakes of each encounter. The handicaps can be anything from level reduction, DoT infliction with increasing potency, stat breaks (ilv reduction), movement speed reduction (making it more difficult to escape enemy telegraphs and positioning, removing items like pots and tinkers, taking away raise, among other things.

Rewards would have to be pretty good that increase in value as the rounds progress and get more difficult due to the handicaps. It would be interesting to let players know what they will win should they succeed so they can make the collective decision to continue, or walk away with their current rewards. If they fail though, they lose everything and get a consolation prize akin to a fete present that more often than not turns into something like a token that can be accumulated and traded to a NPC for an item of their choice that is still somewhat useful.

This could be a new type of treasure map instance. I like this. Make it happen SE.

Agree with the person above me that nuking rewards would probably demotivate those who don't want to bash their head into something over and over again (i.e. non-savage crowd or the non-deep dungeon crowd). I'd say rolling back a tier or two of rewards upon failure would be more suitable as it's still a punishment but doesn't feel like a complete waste of time (if I spent like 3-4h in here and died and only got a fete present I'd probably never touch it again lol). If that's not acceptable than perhaps an "Accursed Hoard" option could be available so people can pick up sack equivalents on the way that they can't lose and roll for rewards afterwards. As far as tokens go, I'm open to it but I don't believe it should be double digit tokens to get one item. Ultimately it needs to respect the time of the player attempting it in some form, otherwise I feel a large percentage of people will avoid it for other content that is more flexible with its offerings.

Not against the idea, it's interesting. I just am wondering with the way the devs are currently modeling the game (making things easier), if they'd be open to throwing something like this into the game if it's supposed to be extremely punishing. I agree that the game needs more harder content for midcore and I'm hoping that in DT we start to see the signs of the trend shifting to more harder activities, but who knows.

[Gemina]

Agree with the person above me that nuking rewards would probably demotivate those who don't want to bash their head into something over and over again (i.e. non-savage crowd or the non-deep dungeon crowd). I'd say rolling back a tier or two of rewards upon failure would be more suitable as it's still a punishment but doesn't feel like a complete waste of time (if I spent like 3-4h in here and died and only got a fete present I'd probably never touch it again lol). If that's not acceptable than perhaps an "Accursed Hoard" option could be available so people can pick up sack equivalents on the way that they can't lose and roll for rewards afterwards. As far as tokens go, I'm open to it but I don't believe it should be double digit tokens to get one item. Ultimately it needs to respect the time of the player attempting it in some form, otherwise I feel a large percentage of people will avoid it for other content that is more flexible with its offerings.

Not against the idea, it's interesting. I just am wondering with the way the devs are currently modeling the game (making things easier), if they'd be open to throwing something like this into the game if it's supposed to be extremely punishing. I agree that the game needs more harder content for midcore and I'm hoping that in DT we start to see the signs of the trend shifting to more harder activities, but who knows.

The only reason why I think players would be deterred to continue running the content is because they want to go down easy street to get the rewards. Eff that. And I mean that in the biggest way possible. I'm sick of it. This isn't like the current treasure dungeons where there is a ton of RNG involved. There would be with the bosses you face and the handicaps received, but not so much with the rewards. If players want the next long hairstyle, or glamours typically found only in the cash shop, they are simply going to have to git gud. There could be things they do keep such as gil and tomes that's rewarded after each encounter, but not what's in the loot box.

There simply must be a risk vs reward aspect to this content, or it will undoubtedly fail. We have this already with Faux Hallows. You only get to play the grid game if you beat the current unreal trial. If you don't. Then too bad. Get better. There needs to be more content like this, especially at the casual level to help players desire to get to higher ground.

[Saraide]

The only reason why I think players would be deterred to continue running the content is because they want to go down easy street to get the rewards. Eff that. And I mean that in the biggest way possible. I'm sick of it. This isn't like the current treasure dungeons where there is a ton of RNG involved. There would be with the bosses you face and the handicaps received, but not so much with the rewards. If players want the next long hairstyle, or glamours typically found only in the cash shop, they are simply going to have to git gud. There could be things they do keep such as gil and tomes that's rewarded after each encounter, but not what's in the loot box.

There simply must be a risk vs reward aspect to this content, or it will undoubtedly fail. We have this already with Faux Hallows. You only get to play the grid game if you beat the current unreal trial. If you don't. Then too bad. Get better. There needs to be more content like this, especially at the casual level to help players desire to get to higher ground.

Glad you mentioned faux hollow because as far as i'm aware beating unreal once and then going back in for the second weekly reward doesnt take away the reward for the first clear if you wipe on it.

[LianaThorne]

The only reason why I think players would be deterred to continue running the content is because they want to go down easy street to get the rewards. Eff that. And I mean that in the biggest way possible. I'm sick of it. This isn't like the current treasure dungeons where there is a ton of RNG involved. There would be with the bosses you face and the handicaps received, but not so much with the rewards. If players want the next long hairstyle, or glamours typically found only in the cash shop, they are simply going to have to git gud. There could be things they do keep such as gil and tomes that's rewarded after each encounter, but not what's in the loot box.

There simply must be a risk vs reward aspect to this content, or it will undoubtedly fail. We have this already with Faux Hallows. You only get to play the grid game if you beat the current unreal trial. If you don't. Then too bad. Get better. There needs to be more content like this, especially at the casual level to help players desire to get to higher ground.

Casual players aren't interested in hard content...that's why they're casual. Also, I'm confused about the cash shop comparison as Square wouldn't put anything that could be monetized well as a grindable reward, long hair especially would be paywalled imo because of how desired it is by the community. Or are you suggesting they lock cash shop items to only people who clear this new mode?

Taking all of that out of the picture, most likely whatever it is that would be there as a reward would end up on the market board and casuals could buy it that way (since you can breathe and make money tbh) instead of hitting the wall over and over.

If it isn't, it'll just become another thing to be RMT carried through and funded by people who can't be bothered to grind it and prefer convenience (like the people who pay for ultimate clears but can't even do a basic rotation).

[Gemina]

Casual players aren't interested in hard content...that's why they're casual. Also, I'm confused about the cash shop comparison as Square wouldn't put anything that could be monetized well as a grindable reward, long hair especially would be paywalled imo because of how desired it is by the community. Or are you suggesting they lock cash shop items to only people who clear this new mode?

Taking all of that out of the picture, most likely whatever it is that would be there as a reward would end up on the market board and casuals could buy it that way (since you can breathe and make money tbh) instead of hitting the wall over and over.

If it isn't, it'll just become another thing to be RMT carried through and funded by people who can't be bothered to grind it and prefer convenience (like the people who pay for ultimate clears but can't even do a basic rotation).

What are you talking about? Nearly everyone who plays the game at the EX level are casual players seeking out harder content.

Also, not a single long hairstyle in this game is paywalled. Unless you want to count Lyse's, which I don't. And I only mentioned glamour that is worthy of being in the cash shop but aren't. There are plenty in the game such a 2B's outfit, YorHa gear, and nearly everything PvP.

Drops being made marketable doesn't kill content, it incentivizes it. Players too lazy to do JS will always exist. There are players who like a challenge. Plenty of them. OPs suggestions targets this demographic of players. Or is it crime to do anything outside of the box that doesn't require hand holding and coddling people who can't be bothered to actually play the game?

Your lack of faith in your fellow players is really sad. I don't say this to offend you. But it remains the same that your in game experiences has lead to you feeling the way you do nonetheless. You might want to take a step back and reflect on why you're still paying your sub.

[LianaThorne]

What are you talking about? Nearly everyone who plays the game at the EX level are casual players seeking out harder content.

Also, not a single long hairstyle in this game is paywalled. Unless you want to count Lyse's, which I don't. And I only mentioned glamour that is worthy of being in the cash shop but aren't. There are plenty in the game such a 2B's outfit, YorHa gear, and nearly everything PvP.

Drops being made marketable doesn't kill content, it incentivizes it. Players too lazy to do JS will always exist. There are players who like a challenge. Plenty of them. OPs suggestions targets this demographic of players. Or is it crime to do anything outside of the box that doesn't require hand holding and coddling people who can't be bothered to actually play the game?

Your lack of faith in your fellow players is really sad. I don't say this to offend you. But it remains the same that your in game experiences has lead to you feeling the way you do nonetheless. You might want to take a step back and reflect on why you're still paying your sub.

Let me start off by saying that we both have different definitions of what "casual" is. You say EX is casual, I say it's not. I know plenty of people who are terrified to even touch EX because they think it'll be too hard or they'll get bullied by other people who have certain expectations of how people should play the game. In my eyes, anyone who doesn't want to touch anything past typical roulette content is a casual player with EX players stepping into the midcore side of things. It's cool if you disagree and I respect your perspective but that's just how I see it.

I also wouldn't consider Lyse's hair to be an example as its a ponytail. The only one I'd consider to be closest to long hair is Great Lengths (since it goes down past the shoulder blades) but it's still not a "hair all the way down your back" type of long hair style that has been asked for for a while (ex. Ysayle's hair that was left out of her cash shop outfit).

I agree that having a marketable item up for drop can incentivize players to run the content for a while (I think it's fair to say that it also does dwindle down after the initial hype wears off) and I'm not against the idea of this content being made for a specific group of people. I would like there to be something in the game for everyone. I just feel like the way this is being spoken about now leans more towards a pressure tool to make casuals "get gud" rather than just a piece of content to provide to the demographic.

I'd like to see this implemented but for the right reasons: "providing a fun piece of content for people who enjoy that style of content". I think that's more than fair to ask for and as I said, I'm on board.

My lack of faith comes from the thousand person discords specifically made to purchase carries (from EX to Ultimate) and how it's evolved into a something of a joke now to have an Ultimate weapon because it's 50/50 on whether or not you paid for it. As for my sub, I still pay it because I enjoy the parts of the game that I play (achievement hunting, running DRS, relic grinding, helping random people in PF, etc.). Not entirely sure why we're now resulting to personal prods and telling me to consider quitting the game in a manner of speaking...but I feel it's a bit unnecessary considering nothing of what I said in any of my posts was a jab at you.