New Difficulty Mode Suggestion: (Chaos)

[ty_taurus]

At this point, I think the vast majority of players are fairly familiar with the various difficulty "tags" we see attached to various pieces of content, things like (extreme), (savage), and (ultimate), amongst a few others. With that in mind, I'd like to suggest a new difficulty tag: (chaos).

What is (Chaos) difficulty?

(Chaos) difficulty would be about taking content that's relatively easy, ranging from dungeon bosses to normal raid bosses and arranging them in a sort of rogue-lite randomized fashion where each fight has no mechanical changes, but now adds randomized hazard-type effects to each fight. Think FF7's Gold Saucer Colosseum. At certain set intervals, a random hazard is applied to the fight for the rest of that fight, and gradually, those hazards start making the fight more and more hectic the longer it takes you, things like adding a thunderstorm to the fight that has small circle AOEs striking around the arena, a flickering ice floor that turns on and off, adding that giant rolling ball from Alexander 7, etc.

The different releases we could see would be categories of which bosses would be randomly pulled from, like A Realm Reborn (Chaos) would pit you against random ARR Dungeon bosses with random trial bosses every X fights, to a total of Y fights. Outside of expansion based challenges, you could also do things like Variant (Chaos) Set I, which features Variant Dungeon bosses from EW, whereas a future Variant (Chaos) Set II could feature random Variant bosses that we eventually see in DT.

What are your thoughts on a difficulty mode like that?

[Saraide]

You had me at rogue-lite. I think taking normal mode content is a really good idea because those fights feature a lot more leeway when it comes to adding random arena hazards. Even if those random hazards overlap all safe zones in a mechanic it's still probably going to be liveable.

For me a roguelite game mode should also include gaining randomized actions or be made up completely from randomized actions, leading to unique rotations every run ideally. Balance does not need be the primary concern here since every run should be different anyway.

[Gemina]

Adding randomized effects to increase the fight's difficulty would be introducing mechanical changes to an already existing fight. This already happens to a certain extent in the EX/Savage versions of existing NM 8-man encounters. Not necessarily random, but adding additional mechanics not present in the NM fights.

What the Gold Saucer colosseum did was take existing monsters in the world of FFVII and introduce handicaps to the player. Things such as breaking their materia, weapon, armor, etc. In a sense, we have this as well in Deep Dungeon content which also handicaps players by taking away their natural regen, abilities, making the enemies stronger, and so forth.

However, I still like your idea and I think something like a boss rush mode wherein players face random bosses that could essentially be just about any encounter currently in the game that introduces a random handicap that stacks with the handicap from the previous round. You can also give each boss an enrage timer to increase the stakes of each encounter. The handicaps can be anything from level reduction, DoT infliction with increasing potency, stat breaks (ilv reduction), movement speed reduction (making it more difficult to escape enemy telegraphs and positioning, removing items like pots and tinkers, taking away raise, among other things.

Rewards would have to be pretty good that increase in value as the rounds progress and get more difficult due to the handicaps. It would be interesting to let players know what they will win should they succeed so they can make the collective decision to continue, or walk away with their current rewards. If they fail though, they lose everything and get a consolation prize akin to a fete present that more often than not turns into something like a token that can be accumulated and traded to a NPC for an item of their choice that is still somewhat useful.

This could be a new type of treasure map instance. I like this. Make it happen SE.

[Saraide]

Adding randomized effects to increase the fight's difficulty would be introducing mechanical changes to an already existing fight. This already happens to a certain extent in the EX/Savage versions of existing NM 8-man encounters. Not necessarily random, but adding additional mechanics not present in the NM fights.

What the Gold Saucer colosseum did was take existing monsters in the world of FFVII and introduce handicaps to the player. Things such as breaking their materia, weapon, armor, etc. In a sense, we have this as well in Deep Dungeon content which also handicaps players by taking away their natural regen, abilities, making the enemies stronger, and so forth.

However, I still like your idea and I think something like a boss rush mode wherein players face random bosses that could essentially be just about any encounter currently in the game that introduces a random handicap that stacks with the handicap from the previous round. You can also give each boss an enrage timer to increase the stakes of each encounter. The handicaps can be anything from level reduction, DoT infliction with increasing potency, stat breaks (ilv reduction), movement speed reduction (making it more difficult to escape enemy telegraphs and positioning, removing items like pots and tinkers, taking away raise, among other things.

Rewards would have to be pretty good that increase in value as the rounds progress and get more difficult due to the handicaps. It would be interesting to let players know what they will win should they succeed so they can make the collective decision to continue, or walk away with their current rewards. If they fail though, they lose everything and get a consolation prize akin to a fete present that more often than not turns into something like a token that can be accumulated and traded to a NPC for an item of their choice that is still somewhat useful.

This could be a new type of treasure map instance. I like this. Make it happen SE.

I dont think people should be punished for trying and failing. IMO games/gamemodes like this function well and are engaging when you can enter at any time and when you keep rewards/unlocks even if you do fail. We should encourage people to try and go beyond their abilities in a game mode like that.

[Gemina]

I dont think people should be punished for trying and failing. IMO games/gamemodes like this function well and are engaging when you can enter at any time and when you keep rewards/unlocks even if you do fail. We should encourage people to try and go beyond their abilities in a game mode like that.

On the contrary, you accomplish encouraging players to go above and beyond through trial and failure. There is far too much handholding and participation trophies given in this game as is. It has made it stale and strips longevity away from the content. Players absolutely should not be rewarded for failure. Like I said, they can quit after the completion of any round with the rewards they have acquired. Knowing they can try the next round and still keep what they've earned lowers the stakes, and when you reduce the stakes you take away tension along with the motivation to do better and give it your best. This type of content would give the game a run on the treadmill that it seriously needs right now.

[Saraide]

On the contrary, you accomplish encouraging players to go above and beyond through trial and failure. There is far too much handholding and participation trophies given in this game as is. It has made it stale and strips longevity away from the content. Players absolutely should not be rewarded for failure. Like I said, they can quit after the completion of any round with the rewards they have acquired. Knowing they can try the next round and still keep what they've earned lowers the stakes, and when you reduce the stakes you take away tension along with the motivation to do better and give it your best. This type of content would give the game a run on the treadmill that it seriously needs right now.

You should get the rewards for the fights you beat and you dont get the rewards for the fight you dont beat. That's not rewarding failure.

[LianaThorne]

Adding randomized effects to increase the fight's difficulty would be introducing mechanical changes to an already existing fight. This already happens to a certain extent in the EX/Savage versions of existing NM 8-man encounters. Not necessarily random, but adding additional mechanics not present in the NM fights.

What the Gold Saucer colosseum did was take existing monsters in the world of FFVII and introduce handicaps to the player. Things such as breaking their materia, weapon, armor, etc. In a sense, we have this as well in Deep Dungeon content which also handicaps players by taking away their natural regen, abilities, making the enemies stronger, and so forth.

However, I still like your idea and I think something like a boss rush mode wherein players face random bosses that could essentially be just about any encounter currently in the game that introduces a random handicap that stacks with the handicap from the previous round. You can also give each boss an enrage timer to increase the stakes of each encounter. The handicaps can be anything from level reduction, DoT infliction with increasing potency, stat breaks (ilv reduction), movement speed reduction (making it more difficult to escape enemy telegraphs and positioning, removing items like pots and tinkers, taking away raise, among other things.

Rewards would have to be pretty good that increase in value as the rounds progress and get more difficult due to the handicaps. It would be interesting to let players know what they will win should they succeed so they can make the collective decision to continue, or walk away with their current rewards. If they fail though, they lose everything and get a consolation prize akin to a fete present that more often than not turns into something like a token that can be accumulated and traded to a NPC for an item of their choice that is still somewhat useful.

This could be a new type of treasure map instance. I like this. Make it happen SE.

Agree with the person above me that nuking rewards would probably demotivate those who don't want to bash their head into something over and over again (i.e. non-savage crowd or the non-deep dungeon crowd). I'd say rolling back a tier or two of rewards upon failure would be more suitable as it's still a punishment but doesn't feel like a complete waste of time (if I spent like 3-4h in here and died and only got a fete present I'd probably never touch it again lol). If that's not acceptable than perhaps an "Accursed Hoard" option could be available so people can pick up sack equivalents on the way that they can't lose and roll for rewards afterwards. As far as tokens go, I'm open to it but I don't believe it should be double digit tokens to get one item. Ultimately it needs to respect the time of the player attempting it in some form, otherwise I feel a large percentage of people will avoid it for other content that is more flexible with its offerings.

Not against the idea, it's interesting. I just am wondering with the way the devs are currently modeling the game (making things easier), if they'd be open to throwing something like this into the game if it's supposed to be extremely punishing. I agree that the game needs more harder content for midcore and I'm hoping that in DT we start to see the signs of the trend shifting to more harder activities, but who knows.

[Gemina]

Agree with the person above me that nuking rewards would probably demotivate those who don't want to bash their head into something over and over again (i.e. non-savage crowd or the non-deep dungeon crowd). I'd say rolling back a tier or two of rewards upon failure would be more suitable as it's still a punishment but doesn't feel like a complete waste of time (if I spent like 3-4h in here and died and only got a fete present I'd probably never touch it again lol). If that's not acceptable than perhaps an "Accursed Hoard" option could be available so people can pick up sack equivalents on the way that they can't lose and roll for rewards afterwards. As far as tokens go, I'm open to it but I don't believe it should be double digit tokens to get one item. Ultimately it needs to respect the time of the player attempting it in some form, otherwise I feel a large percentage of people will avoid it for other content that is more flexible with its offerings.

Not against the idea, it's interesting. I just am wondering with the way the devs are currently modeling the game (making things easier), if they'd be open to throwing something like this into the game if it's supposed to be extremely punishing. I agree that the game needs more harder content for midcore and I'm hoping that in DT we start to see the signs of the trend shifting to more harder activities, but who knows.

The only reason why I think players would be deterred to continue running the content is because they want to go down easy street to get the rewards. Eff that. And I mean that in the biggest way possible. I'm sick of it. This isn't like the current treasure dungeons where there is a ton of RNG involved. There would be with the bosses you face and the handicaps received, but not so much with the rewards. If players want the next long hairstyle, or glamours typically found only in the cash shop, they are simply going to have to git gud. There could be things they do keep such as gil and tomes that's rewarded after each encounter, but not what's in the loot box.

There simply must be a risk vs reward aspect to this content, or it will undoubtedly fail. We have this already with Faux Hallows. You only get to play the grid game if you beat the current unreal trial. If you don't. Then too bad. Get better. There needs to be more content like this, especially at the casual level to help players desire to get to higher ground.

[Saraide]

The only reason why I think players would be deterred to continue running the content is because they want to go down easy street to get the rewards. Eff that. And I mean that in the biggest way possible. I'm sick of it. This isn't like the current treasure dungeons where there is a ton of RNG involved. There would be with the bosses you face and the handicaps received, but not so much with the rewards. If players want the next long hairstyle, or glamours typically found only in the cash shop, they are simply going to have to git gud. There could be things they do keep such as gil and tomes that's rewarded after each encounter, but not what's in the loot box.

There simply must be a risk vs reward aspect to this content, or it will undoubtedly fail. We have this already with Faux Hallows. You only get to play the grid game if you beat the current unreal trial. If you don't. Then too bad. Get better. There needs to be more content like this, especially at the casual level to help players desire to get to higher ground.

Glad you mentioned faux hollow because as far as i'm aware beating unreal once and then going back in for the second weekly reward doesnt take away the reward for the first clear if you wipe on it.

[LianaThorne]

The only reason why I think players would be deterred to continue running the content is because they want to go down easy street to get the rewards. Eff that. And I mean that in the biggest way possible. I'm sick of it. This isn't like the current treasure dungeons where there is a ton of RNG involved. There would be with the bosses you face and the handicaps received, but not so much with the rewards. If players want the next long hairstyle, or glamours typically found only in the cash shop, they are simply going to have to git gud. There could be things they do keep such as gil and tomes that's rewarded after each encounter, but not what's in the loot box.

There simply must be a risk vs reward aspect to this content, or it will undoubtedly fail. We have this already with Faux Hallows. You only get to play the grid game if you beat the current unreal trial. If you don't. Then too bad. Get better. There needs to be more content like this, especially at the casual level to help players desire to get to higher ground.

Casual players aren't interested in hard content...that's why they're casual. Also, I'm confused about the cash shop comparison as Square wouldn't put anything that could be monetized well as a grindable reward, long hair especially would be paywalled imo because of how desired it is by the community. Or are you suggesting they lock cash shop items to only people who clear this new mode?

Taking all of that out of the picture, most likely whatever it is that would be there as a reward would end up on the market board and casuals could buy it that way (since you can breathe and make money tbh) instead of hitting the wall over and over.

If it isn't, it'll just become another thing to be RMT carried through and funded by people who can't be bothered to grind it and prefer convenience (like the people who pay for ultimate clears but can't even do a basic rotation).