XIV's loot system is so alt-unfriendly it's absurd.

[Mostly_Raxus]

But unlike taxes, you can just....not pay the sub. (I mean, you can also not pay your taxes, but the IRS (or your country's equivalent) will have something to say about that.) It's a luxury product, not the government. So this comparison doesn't work.

it works fine, as its talking about the fallacy of people thinking things can be payed for with some assumed never ending magic tax dollar with out the realization that that money comes form the taxpayers, or in this case the customer. the analogy has nothing to do with the money or reason for acquisition of the aforementioned money, but instead the idiocy of those thinking the resource is the sole result of the governments existence, or in this case the company.
its basically saying: make a crap product and go out of business, something square is learning hard at the moment, just ask the NA branch that was closed entirely because of needless pandering and terrible game play (forspoken, avengers)

you can lead a player to an analogy, but you can't force them to understand the nuance of it.

[strawberrycake]

it works fine, as its talking about the fallacy of people thinking things can be payed for with some assumed never ending magic tax dollar with out the realization that that money comes form the taxpayers, or in this case the customer. the analogy has nothing to do with the money or reason for acquisition of the aforementioned money, but instead the idiocy of those thinking the resource is the sole result of the governments existence, or in this case the company.
its basically saying: make a crap product and go out of business, something square is learning hard at the moment, just ask the NA branch that was closed entirely because of needless pandering and terrible game play (forspoken, avengers)

you can lead a player to an analogy, but you can't force them to understand the nuance of it.

The issue with Forspoken wasn't even pandering, it was a rushed dev cycle and large chunks of the dev team not knowing what the other chunk was even doing, which is a norm within SE as a whole. Which is ironically a problem XIV also seems to face as well, becaue I'm still trying to find where ANY of us ask for the 2 min meta, or any of the assinine changes we got over when we DID ask for the loot system to be better as far back as ARR.

And most people don't look to hard beyond what they see.

[ForteNightshade]

Imagine the situation if there was no unofficial ladder via that site that gives funny color rankings. The need to even have BiS is partially due this site existing, as without parses nobody would care about numbers to get gear and extra runs to improve them.

This is always the great irony isn't it? That website keeps the raid scene alive which is precisely why SE will never do anything about it.

[Neoyoshi]

And here I am struggling just to find time just to gear a 2nd job.

I wish I had a fraction of the energy to even find myself contemplating the notion the OP is suggesting.

[ty_taurus]

Why can't we just have a system where people are allowed to grind at the pace they want? Do you want to grind out BiS on all jobs? Great! Go ahead, you have the ability to! You want to gear up slowly and/or just care about gearing 1-2 jobs? Maybe a few? Aweseome! You can do that too! None of this: "But if I have the option of grinding faster, that means I have to grind faster, and I don't want to grind faster!" mentality that makes no Earthly sense.

[DrWho2010]

Why can't we just have a system where people are allowed to grind at the pace they want? Do you want to grind out BiS on all jobs? Great! Go ahead, you have the ability to! You want to gear up slowly and/or just care about gearing 1-2 jobs? Maybe a few? Aweseome! You can do that too! None of this: "But if I have the option of grinding faster, that means I have to grind faster, and I don't want to grind faster!" mentality that makes no Earthly sense.

Because as much as you eschew that last sentence of yours, unfortunately that is a mentality that is far too prevalent amongst players.

If the option is there, they will do it, and they will do it unhealthily because of a perceived need to do it ALL RIGHT NOW RIGHT NOW RIGHT AWAY MUST HAVE EVERYTHING NOW.

And then they wonder why they get burnout and say it's a bad game. (which almost always happens in any game you can binge regardless of it being a live service MMO or a single player offline game or not)

The devs want to keep people subbed (which is an old argument) but at the same time in a way they are also saving people from themselves because someone/something will drive player to do it regardless.

[CelestiCer]

Because as much as you eschew that last sentence of yours, unfortunately that is a mentality that is far too prevalent amongst players.

If the option is there, they will do it, and they will do it unhealthily because of a perceived need to do it ALL RIGHT NOW RIGHT NOW RIGHT AWAY MUST HAVE EVERYTHING NOW.

And then they wonder why they get burnout and say it's a bad game. (which almost always happens in any game you can binge regardless of it being a live service MMO or a single player offline game or not)

The devs want to keep people subbed (which is an old argument) but at the same time in a way they are also saving people from themselves because someone/something will drive player to do it regardless.

I get burned out faster from Job-Designs made purposefully bland and flavorless making all content more boring, or content I have to repeat like roulettes and Fates that is boring with the boring Job-Designs? vs just letting me Finish something I set out to Finish during my game-time, because the game allows me to. That players can't manage their desires to have it all be done asap? and I don't mean just Savage btw, I mean everything... that sounds like a user issue... the fear of FOMO that isn't even there? Hell you even have the contradiction of mismatching schedules with Friends, cause with Loot Lockout? you have that problem...

[strawberrycake]

Imagine the situation if there was no unofficial ladder via that site that gives funny color rankings. The need to even have BiS is partially due this site existing, as without parses nobody would care about numbers to get gear and extra runs to improve them.

STOP the CAP, BiS literally existed because we did the math by hand back in the day. Whine aboutFFlogs somewhere else.

[strawberrycake]

Because as much as you eschew that last sentence of yours, unfortunately that is a mentality that is far too prevalent amongst players.

If the option is there, they will do it, and they will do it unhealthily because of a perceived need to do it ALL RIGHT NOW RIGHT NOW RIGHT AWAY MUST HAVE EVERYTHING NOW.

And then they wonder why they get burnout and say it's a bad game. (which almost always happens in any game you can binge regardless of it being a live service MMO or a single player offline game or not)

The devs want to keep people subbed (which is an old argument) but at the same time in a way they are also saving people from themselves because someone/something will drive player to do it regardless.

Yet, when we look at the premier game for how this type of raid Scene got started, WoW, you literally have hundreds of guilds that raid at multiple paces and speeds, that get their BiS at their own rates and this problem isn't that bad. Dragonflight literally offers you the ability to gear at your own speed with no problems and clear rates are HIGHER for it, people are raiding more and are willing to gear more alts because of it.

Ironically a lot of the WoW burnouts are here Burning out now, because they made WoW, a game that at MANY points was unhealthy, even more unhealthy, and while it's def still there, as I doubt it will ever leave any MMOs raiding scene, theres more people now who just do it how they want.

When you look at XIV most people don't even know why they're getting BiS, we have no reason to get BiS and most people blindly follow the META [most effective tactics available] Most of them aren't even willing to theory craft to figure out other tactics. SO honestly EVEN IF you change how we acquire gear, these burnouts are the issue, not the game for offering more ways to play.

Or to simplify, just because those people are addicts doesn't mean I can't enjoy a drink or two and call it a night.

[ty_taurus]

Because as much as you eschew that last sentence of yours, unfortunately that is a mentality that is far too prevalent amongst players.

If the option is there, they will do it, and they will do it unhealthily because of a perceived need to do it ALL RIGHT NOW RIGHT NOW RIGHT AWAY MUST HAVE EVERYTHING NOW.

And then they wonder why they get burnout and say it's a bad game. (which almost always happens in any game you can binge regardless of it being a live service MMO or a single player offline game or not)

The devs want to keep people subbed (which is an old argument) but at the same time in a way they are also saving people from themselves because someone/something will drive player to do it regardless.

Imagine if we applied this same logic to literally anything else in the world.

"What do you MEAN you have 24 ice cream flavors!?!!?!? Now I need to buy ALL OF THEM! WHY DON'T YOU JUST HAVE ONE!?"