Please balance casters in 7.0 or split role up

[Supersnow845]

Literally the only actual utility in this game is expedience (and if you really really stretch it critlo since you used to actually be able to ignore mechanics with it)

Making someone else do more damage, mitigation and healing up aren’t utility

The game is so stale on actual utility it’s pathetic, no wonder SCH is so damn powerful

[Mecia]

Remove res or stop taxing it so much and give BLM Apocatastasis and Mana Shift back.

[SieyaM]

I don’t really know the answer, it’s hard to discuss rezz on casters because there is an overwhelming section of the casual playerbase whos totality of interaction with the casters is “hahaha verraise go burrrrrr” in alliance raids and “modern SMN is good because it looks like a SMN”

Is it actually fair to delete verraise for said people because it unbalances savage, I honestly don’t know the answer to that question, removing raise is objectively the best way to balance the casters in savage, then you just rank their DPS based on complexity (BLM>PIC>RDM>SMN) because magic barrier or pheonix healing isn’t worth enough to alter balance

You could made rezz a caster role action with a massive CD (it wouldn’t really affect BLM’s balance because they get to do the most damage by nature of being the most complex) but that still interferes with the “rezzmage goes burrrrr” idea

The only thing I think would make the majority happy is leave the rezzes as they are now in casual content then restrict them in savage but they have never altered action design specifically for high end before

The OP’s suggestion wouldn’t work because there is only 4 slots, if they did OP’s suggestion then prog would be

-melee
-prog caster
-phys range
-melee/damage caster (only if damage caster did enough damage to equal the melee)

And farm would be

-melee
-damage caster
-phys ranged
-melee/damage caster (only if damage caster did enough damage to equal the melee)

So if the damage casters aren’t buffed to melee level then they are getting excluded from prog (and if they are buffed to that level then we have 8 jobs fighting for 2 slots) and then the prog casters get barred from farm and suddenly we have only 2 jobs for 1 spot and if they equal melee they can also take the 4th slot, it’s unbalanced no matter which way the balance falls

I would say that it is not a good idea to remove an ability that does get use in regular content just because it creates problems in hardcore content. That is how I believe we got into this place with job design, the dev team design jobs solely for a short battle with a single enemy in an arena and not for dungeons or exploration zones or any other kind of content. So we have short rotations with a 2 minute meta because that is what makes hardcore content balanced and that content doesn't go on long enough for a 2 minute loop to become stale and monotonous.

[Lyth]

Magical Ranged DPS is the most poorly balanced subrole in the game currently. You can't solve a utility imbalance by creating a dps imbalance.

Can you imagine if WAR's dps output was reduced relative to other tanks on the basis of its absurd self-healing capacity? Or if SCH's dps output was reduced relative to other healers on the basis of its unique access to Expedient? If other roles actively push back against this mindset, then why is it acceptable to give BLM the privilege of being in its own special category?

If access to Raise is a big deal, then you just limit the number of times a non-healer Raise can be used in a fight, subject to fight difficulty. Variant and Criterion Dungeons have already experimented with this concept. The alternative is that you put it on a party-wide shared recast and give more jobs access to it. But you can't balance utility against damage output. You have to balance utility against utility and damage against damage.

[Silverquick]

There is no answer.

Because you can't balance on savage content for the 1% who play it without hosing up all the stuff below. This has been the problem throughout the game whenever it was done.

[Mayhemmer]

Magical Ranged DPS is the most poorly balanced subrole in the game currently. You can't solve a utility imbalance by creating a dps imbalance.

Can you imagine if WAR's dps output was reduced relative to other tanks on the basis of its absurd self-healing capacity? Or if SCH's dps output was reduced relative to other healers on the basis of its unique access to Expedient? If other roles actively push back against this mindset, then why is it acceptable to give BLM the privilege of being in its own special category?

I really do wonder why casters (and physranged) have always seemed to be stuck in this 'damage<>utility<>complexity' triangle of HELL, and what the obsession with keeping them there is all about. I know other roles have their fair share of balance issues, but maybe outside of healers recently, it feels like it's always been loudest with the ranged roles.

I don't think any of that actually needs explaining; we all know why BLM always seems to come out fully cooked to perfection, but the fact that every other job is seemingly stuck in a purpose-built limbo for so long feels weird, and also that recently reworked jobs feel half-baked on purpose as if to make future additions or tweaks feel like "upgrades." My biggest concern going into Dawntrail is that this kind of thing will just continue and be compounded upon.

Oh, and I do agree with the idea of removing, or at least lowering, access to raises by non-healers, and trimming raid-wide heal/mit tools from DPS.

[Supersnow845]

To be fair magical ranged DPS is easily the role that has the largest discrepancy between the difficulty of its easiest and hardest job (and thus was true before they made SMN a crayon eater of a class) so I can understand it having the largest discrepancy in the damage between BLM and SMN but the discrepancy is currently too much and is being blamed on the caster rezz

However it is totally fair to say this problem is also being caused because of how disgustingly biased square is to making BLM perfect at the expense of near every other class, which is probably why it’ll never be fixed, BLM is never allowed to be bad so the other casters have to suffer to compensate

[Carighan]

They just need to remove raise from the casters, raise is already too free and it’s what’s messing up balance

Just say that you want Red Mage removed, no need to dance around the topic like that. (because frankly that's what makes Red Mage feel unique right now, the spam-rezzing)

[Supersnow845]

Just say that you want Red Mage removed, no need to dance around the topic like that. (because frankly that's what makes Red Mage feel unique right now, the spam-rezzing)

If using rezz is the only thing you are getting out of red mage I think you might be playing red mage wrong

Red mage is one of the few unique feeling classes we have left and rezz barely matters

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Just say that you want Red Mage removed, no need to dance around the topic like that. (because frankly that's what makes Red Mage feel unique right now, the spam-rezzing)

Dualcast? Using offensive spells of White and Black Magic? Swordplay? There's more to RDM throughout the series than being a glorified Raise bot.

If you want to keep the supportive nature, could always replace it with Vermedica on oGCD and make Vercure two oGCD charges as well along with a spell that just preps Dualcast and nothing else before the Red Mage cabal comes for my head.