Thread: Please balance casters in 7.0 or split role up

They already hosed this up a long time ago and it was back during Stormblood. And if you think removing Res is going to magically and mystically make anything better, you're lying to yourself.

The whole point of doing a class system in the first place is to have unique classes each with strengths and weaknesses that aren't as good at some things than others. When you get away from this, whole point of a class system, the class system becomes pointless.

This used to be really good in this game and it's slowly going into the tank. Example... Back in HW, BLM was really good at single target while SMN was really good at AoE, so whenever you had any situation where there was a lot of AoE needed SMN came out on top.... but then if you had a lot of Single Target DPS needed BLM came out on top. It depended on how you designed the Raid as to which one was best at it. In Alexander for example SMN came out on top of AoE 8-mans where there was a lot of mobs, while the BLM did in the DPS check single target stuff. Same when a given 8 man required a lot of Movement vs one that didn't need as much. It all depended on the situation as to which one would be better.

Another thing I think they really screwed up on which is in line with this... was when they removed subjobs in Stormblood.

One thing you could guarantee back then was that everyone would definitely have at least 2 different classes leveled. So if one of your jobs wasn't up to the task you just reverse your sub/main and the other class could cover it. So you were never at a complete impass if your normal main was bad at the specific content you needed to beat.

It was this type of thing they really wrecked with some of their short sighted decision making... which in turn really sucked a lot of the flavor out of what used to be a very rich and diverse environment/world.

It would have been very easy had they not suddently had their AoE hatred flare up in Stormblood and nerfed the crap out of it in favor of single target.

They could have easily kept BLM at Strongest Single target, with SMN at strongest AoE... and Red Mage could have been slipped between them both and Res would never have even been a factor.

I just really dont want em to mess with my job, because idk what id play if they take that from me as well...

How does one make a judgement about caster job difficulty with only SMN levelled? I would expect the starting point for such a determination would be playing all the jobs under comparison in raid content, at bare minimum.

I wonder how frequently the perceptions around BLM come down to anecdote and word of mouth. Longer cast times require a degree of anticipation and spreadsheet work, but sitting around waiting for your 'now loading' bar to fill also drastically drops your APM, which in turn drops the mechanical difficulty to turn-based RPG levels. I also think that BLM comes with a better set of movement tools overall than RDM.

It's not like there could possibly be an element of developer bias driving BLM to be given special treatment amongst casters, oh no. It must be because it's a super high skill job which is denied the super special privilege (read: not forcibly delegated) to assist the healers with raise duty.

Originally Posted by Lyth

How does one make a judgement about caster job difficulty with only SMN levelled?.

Originally Posted by Ggwppino

I'm going to be rude, I don't even care, I doubt I'll be touching this game for much longer given how pathetic this game is becoming also this acc is an alt.

lol, luckily I wrote it.
Please do not cherry pick, At least read the posts that led to these comments.
And you'll say to me "then show up" and I'll say "No, I don't think I will".

Can you take me for a troll? I'm fine with it, but is what I'm writing wrong?
I do not think. I'm clearly telling the truth, which may be annoying, but that's how it is.

Do you give ress to the blm? Even if it doesn't make sense? You want to homogenize it like it's been done for everything because you're here crying: WhY nOt Me???
Okay, now tell me honestly: do you think anything will change?
Be intellectually honest please.

Unfortunately, if the BLM are mistreated it is for the simple fact that they make a bad impression when prog. Unfortunately, the fact that the BLM has to do its homework and not like new SMN and RDM who look at the plan and they already know everything. Often the average player doesn't do them, pretending to do it directly in the field, but with a class like the BLM, it falls pretty badly.

I challenge you in any other mmorpg to try not to do your homework in high level content. You probably get banned from the guild and shit-stormed in your local community. (This is an appeal: if you want to start doing high level content, also in pf, for the everyone sake, commit yourself and demand commitment from others, the important thing is not to make fun of anyone, in any case you play with 7 other people who are also dedicating time to you)

Furthermore, I played in various statics and coincidentally they always complained that they would never take a blm again for the prog and first clear, because often hinted them runs.

People are simple: if there is a shortcut available legally, they take it (sometimes even illegally lol).
Statics, but also PFs, prefer to have someone who is consistent right away and... do 1+1, the most obvious choice is the smn and the rdm, but not for ress.

If rdm and smn had the same complexity in having to do their homework like blm, this revulsion against the blm would not exist at all, because they would all be first ladies.

Currently the blm is the only class that either makes sacrifices for the sake of the party, or the party has to stay at its "comfortable". The widely used strats, as the blm competes with embarassing classes, are never meant for him. Never. Because objectively it doesn't even make sense to waste too much time thinking about strats that the other 2 may very well not do.

Indeed, call me nostradamus, if the smn remains like this, if the rdm remains like this and the pictomancer will be a reskinned smn (I can already see it crystal clear), we will have that the pictomancer without ress will be the most used followed by the smn.

So yes, there really is a balancing problem in casters. And it is highly ridiculous. But not because of the ress, which is like looking at the finger instead of the moon, but because of an absurdly large imbalance in the complexity and things to take into account of the jobs. Moreover, with the advent of the smn, which is a phys ranged in disguise, the gap is even more ridiculous.

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Also do you mean to tell me that RDM is complex??? It was a joke back in Stormblood days and it's still a joke. Of course, if we compare it to the shit they released such as smn, then rdm is a complex class.
Then, hey, in this expansion it objectively had some difficulties in long movement, but like blm and old smn in the expansions before in other ways.
It is characteristic of caster class.

That sure is a lot of words being typed, but not a lot being said.

If you're running with a reclear static on a second character for lockout purposes, they're unlikely to take issue with your job preferences as long as you are competent with your chosen job. If you're in progression, it is preferable for a caster to be skilled and raid ready on both BLM and a Raise-capable caster of their choice. If you hit a genuine dps wall, having access to a raise no longer matters because deaths become too costly. I think people are forgetting this because of how soft the last tier was.

While everyone likes having the extra raise in their party, I don't think that many people want to be the one to bring it. You're sacrificing dps to correct someone else's mistake. Then the game devs punish you further by capping your dps output for having access to that Raise in the first place. It's a double punishment. If I was going into Dawntrail as a caster, I would be strongly advocating for the responsibility to be dumped onto another role, like Physical Ranged (MCH Defibrillator and DNC Danse Macabre when). But I don't think they want it either, they're at enough of an unfair dps penalty as it is.

I think the arguments around Raise are a very poor justification for creating a dps imbalance within the caster subrole, and I think this mindset needs to change. Likewise, if 'complexity' is going to be cited by a lot of players as the primary reason for the imbalance, my suspicion is that this will sooner result in a BLM rework than a SMN/RDM one. Complex gameplay should be a reward in itself, and using it as leverage to try to gain a dps advantage over other jobs in your category will likely bring you more grief than joy.

Originally Posted by Lyth

I think the arguments around Raise are a very poor justification for creating a dps imbalance within the caster subrole, and I think this mindset needs to change

And I agree. But this is just speculation by people who ultimately ignore the data.

The smn in shb produced the same dps output as the blm, identical, the min/max was won by the blm, sure, but we are talking about very few points. (like mnk and drg now for example) Before the nerf, the smn was also much more powerful than the blm.
In stormblood, same.
If the rdm was not at the levels of smn and blm, it is for the simple fact that it was more of a phys ranged with less stuff to think (something veiledly said by the designers several times, but not too veiled either).

And I also agree that if the blm received a further damage boost, however on balance, its appeal, if not in speed-runs, remains unchanged.
Unlike the smn which practically presses a single button without even considering its position because it has practically guaranteed uptime like a phys ranged, and therefore he must exclusively think about doing mechanics, the blm has to earn these things. And a static prefer the smn which doesn't bother anyone, but also the PFs (since they can afford it), compared to a blm who has to refine everything and make mistakes during the fight, not just for the mechanics itself.

And the sooner this thing is digested by everyone, the better it will be for the game.

The fake do-goodism that exists is carcinogenic for the entire class.

Wanting to homogenize everything at all costs in the hope that something will change, having a sop, is never the solution.

If the melee are very similar to each other in dps, it is for the simple fact, that if they are different from each other while preserving their fantasy, that they are complex in the same way for better or worse.

You get rid of the raise or you share it.

That's the end solution.

Same as it's been for the past 10 years.