What about an Eureka-like instanced pvp zone?

[Ath192]

While an instanced PvP zone looks like it could work on paper, there is one big reason why it won't actually work: MNK exists.

MNK specialises in killing a single target, in fact, they're almost guaranteed to kill someone every 75s. FFA PvP will just be a bunch of MNKs roaming around killing people and vying for the top spot.

I wouldn't agree here. I did make it to crystal and diamond in several PvP seasons as a NIN and had my fair share of duels with MNKs and they were under most circumstances unable to kill me, although I absolutely hate meteo dive. Plus, in an open zone PVP map this literally doesn't matter because most people roam in groups preying on people so the chance of a 1 on 1 occurring is relatively low unless they put in solo quests in as AION did, which btw, was hilarious because yes, I did get gang banged several times trying to complete the dumb quests but making it alive to the destinations did give me a thrill.

And realistically that is how PVP is, each class has advantages and disadvantages and you can find yourself in any situation at any given moment so I don't think this is a good argument against. Regardless I'm not saying this needs to happen but I am saying its definitely more interesting than what is actually happening in the game lately, which is nothing.

NOTHING

[IDontPetLalas]

I wouldn't agree here. I did make it to crystal and diamond in several PvP seasons as a NIN and had my fair share of duels with MNKs and they were under most circumstances unable to kill me, although I absolutely hate meteo dive. Plus, in an open zone PVP map this literally doesn't matter because most people roam in groups preying on people so the chance of a 1 on 1 occurring is relatively low unless they put in solo quests in as AION did, which btw, was hilarious because yes, I did get gang banged several times trying to complete the dumb quests but making it alive to the destinations did give me a thrill.

And realistically that is how PVP is, each class has advantages and disadvantages and you can find yourself in any situation at any given moment so I don't think this is a good argument against. Regardless I'm not saying this needs to happen but I am saying its definitely more interesting than what is actually happening in the game lately, which is nothing.

NOTHING

I don't know what class(es) you played in Aion ( I would be curious) , you're playing a NIN here, if you were playing a sin in Aion you were extremely well designed for solo PvP (aside from flight). In that game, in many match-up, in a 1v1, each class had a decent chance. In this game? Not so much, if this instance came to pass, i would hope that it became more like Bozja where people would typically form groups.

[Ath192]

I don't know what class(es) you played in Aion ( I would be curious) , you're playing a NIN here, if you were playing a sin in Aion you were extremely well designed for solo PvP (aside from flight). In that game, in many match-up, in a 1v1, each class had a decent chance. In this game? Not so much, if this instance came to pass, i would hope that it became more like Bozja where people would typically form groups.

No they didn't lol. Some classes were pure crowd control and barely did any damage. Others were squishy and did lots. And as every single MMO with open PVP I've played people straight up ignored tanks to get the mages and ranged. But to be honest it never even mattered, because you either murdered the hapless solo noob crossing the road with a few people or you never engaged in combat unless you had the bigger group. It's been over 5 years since I played Aion though, so I looked it up and it's still the same thing. Queue this post from reddit from 9 months ago:

"Its not a bashing post, and what i am gonna say about how the pvp in Aion is played, i would probably say the exact same for any open world pvp in any mmorpg.
But the thing with Aion is the only every day pvp u can find is open world. There is nothing else on a daily basis.
Here the problem with open world pvp, probably 98% of the fight in open world are win or lose before they even begin.
Player will only engage/look for fight where they have a crushing advantage, Xv1, engagind someone low life, low lvl who gonna miss/be resist on every skill and that is.
I mean in in a certain way u might say its smart to engage a good fight, and its definitly right to think this way, but there is a difference between a fight where u have a advantadge and a fight u cant even possibly lose.
Its a bit sad, was fun to ambush ppl at first , not gonna lie, but it as become quickly boring.
Im not better than other, im fully part of the zerg trending, but again, what can i even do, if u run in to someone and he is not trying to run away, it only mean he know he wont lose."

Dark Age of Camelot was exactly the same thing too, famous for its PVP back in the day the realm vs realm combat rarely had a moment when one group simply wasn't overwhelming the other, the exception being that guilds would try to save their castles even if the odds were against them because they had something to lose. But a skirmish happening outside of that? Nope, you either run or were sure that you were going to win.

I will say however, the game still had the best PVP in the instanced combat where the teams were more or less even and they fought for control of the central keep. We could expect more of the same if FFXIV did this, we already know how PvP plays out in MMOs. It is neither the best nor the worst. But I will repeat, it is more interesting than what we have right now in our zones.

[CVXIV]

Aion is another game I previously played and the only PvP there I encountered was being jumped by someone max level who essentially one shot me or groups of people. Both while questing since they tend to camp out areas you needed for the story.

It got kind of old after awhile, and I didn't like that after a certain level I was forced to be in open PvP since it felt like everyone else already had way better gear than me. It didn't help that you could create smurfs and give them PvP gear so they would have a major advantage over someone at the same level.

Despite all that I still liked the game, I just didn't like that it felt like I couldn't progress in the story and get better gear so I could compete with some of the older players.

[Aravell]

I wouldn't agree here. I did make it to crystal and diamond in several PvP seasons as a NIN and had my fair share of duels with MNKs and they were under most circumstances unable to kill me, although I absolutely hate meteo dive. Plus, in an open zone PVP map this literally doesn't matter because most people roam in groups preying on people so the chance of a 1 on 1 occurring is relatively low unless they put in solo quests in as AION did, which btw, was hilarious because yes, I did get gang banged several times trying to complete the dumb quests but making it alive to the destinations did give me a thrill.

And realistically that is how PVP is, each class has advantages and disadvantages and you can find yourself in any situation at any given moment so I don't think this is a good argument against. Regardless I'm not saying this needs to happen but I am saying its definitely more interesting than what is actually happening in the game lately, which is nothing.

NOTHING

Whether or not you yourself are capable of surviving a MNK is irrelevant, as is you saying that you got to crystal for several seasons (is this an appeal to authority by flexing your rank?). None of that changes the fact that MNK has a job kit specialising in taking down a single target, which makes them a very strong option in FFA PvP along with the other brawler jobs, like DRG and GNB. If an FFA PvP zone is implemented with the current kits, you'll see MNKs, DRGs and GNBs running around racking up kills.

You claim that people would roam in groups and kill people, but in the current job kits, almost every job has a kit that cleaves, so any group that roams together is very likely to succumb to friendly fire, which makes them rather ineffective.

[Ath192]

Whether or not you yourself are capable of surviving a MNK is irrelevant, as is you saying that you got to crystal for several seasons (is this an appeal to authority by flexing your rank?). None of that changes the fact that MNK has a job kit specialising in taking down a single target, which makes them a very strong option in FFA PvP along with the other brawler jobs, like DRG and GNB. If an FFA PvP zone is implemented with the current kits, you'll see MNKs, DRGs and GNBs running around racking up kills.

You claim that people would roam in groups and kill people, but in the current job kits, almost every job has a kit that cleaves, so any group that roams together is very likely to succumb to friendly fire, which makes them rather ineffective.

Pretty malicious statement you got going on there, I mentioned it so that people know I play PVP and am familiar with how classes work. Why would I flex my achievements on a video game like they make me better lol? And why would you take it that way unless you have some insecurities you are trying to project unto people? You wouldn't want to listen to an opinion of someone who doesn't play a game mode being discussed would you?

I would like to know if you play PVP at all? Because at the very least you would know they wouldn't implement friendly fire in parties and alliances, and you would also know that most MMOs have a way of addressing people not getting friendly fire from all their teammates during a fight. It seems like you are talking from a place of complete ignorance.

Let us know which MMO has party members killing each other with friendly fire too. That would be interesting to me as none of the ones I've played has had it be a problem. That sounds tedious for any class with AOE.

I don't know what class(es) you played in Aion ( I would be curious)

To answer your question I played Templar over 10 years ago I do remember having end game gear, and even though I don't remember the details anymore I remember this very clearly: It would take me forever to kill someone, and it would take them forever to kill me. My job was essentially to be annoying as possible stunning and rooting people in place while other people killed the enemy and I got completely ignored because it was a waste of time to attack me. I don't know if they've rebalanced since and I'm sure XIV would rebalance things as they developed.

And I enjoyed it, don't get me wrong, but just like SCH here it just wasn't something you'd take into a pvp field hoping to get a ton of solo kills. And that was okay, not every job has to be good at every single scenario. This is how we got to this level of homogenization in XIV PvE.

[IDontPetLalas]

Pretty malicious statement you got going on there, I mentioned it so that people know I play PVP and am familiar with how classes work. Why would I flex my achievements on a video game like they make me better lol? And why would you take it that way unless you have some insecurities you are trying to project unto people? You wouldn't want to listen to an opinion of someone who doesn't play a game mode being discussed would you?

I would like to know if you play PVP at all? Because at the very least you would know they wouldn't implement friendly fire in parties and alliances, and you would also know that most MMOs have a way of addressing people not getting friendly fire from all their teammates during a fight. It seems like you are talking from a place of complete ignorance.

Let us know which MMO has party members killing each other with friendly fire too. That would be interesting to me as none of the ones I've played has had it be a problem. That sounds tedious for any class with AOE.



To answer your question I played Templar over 10 years ago I do remember having end game gear, and even though I don't remember the details anymore I remember this very clearly: It would take me forever to kill someone, and it would take them forever to kill me. My job was essentially to be annoying as possible stunning and rooting people in place while other people killed the enemy and I got completely ignored because it was a waste of time to attack me. I don't know if they've rebalanced since and I'm sure XIV would rebalance things as they developed.

And I enjoyed it, don't get me wrong, but just like SCH here it just wasn't something you'd take into a pvp field hoping to get a ton of solo kills. And that was okay, not every job has to be good at every single scenario. This is how we got to this level of homogenization in XIV PvE.

Well I appreciate the additional information, that was indeed how Templar played at release and for a few years later, but considerable changes were made to the retail version over the years.

However, I don't see how that has anything to do with the homogenization in FFXIV, the player segments are very different, the job design with the ability to have multiple alts on one character is different, there are no skill trees here (stigmas), the whole core game vision is different.

[Ath192]

Well I appreciate the additional information, that was indeed how Templar played at release and for a few years later, but considerable changes were made to the retail version over the years.

However, I don't see how that has anything to do with the homogenization in FFXIV, the player segments are very different, the job design with the ability to have multiple alts on one character is different, there are no skill trees here (stigmas), the whole core game vision is different.

Just saying that I appreciate classes being different even if they are not super optimal at every scenario. And right now the XIV PvP classes have distinct identities, so I wouldn't want them to get rebalanced and reworked to a point where they all feel the same just so any job can 1v1 in PVP well. I apologize if I didn't make that connection in the argument well.

[IDontPetLalas]

Just saying that I appreciate classes being different even if they are not super optimal at every scenario. And right now the XIV PvP classes have distinct identities, so I wouldn't want them to get rebalanced and reworked to a point where they all feel the same just so any job can 1v1 in PVP well. I apologize if I didn't make that connection in the argument well.

Ok, thanks. Yes, I see your point, and I would agree.

[Aravell]

Pretty malicious statement you got going on there, I mentioned it so that people know I play PVP and am familiar with how classes work. Why would I flex my achievements on a video game like they make me better lol? And why would you take it that way unless you have some insecurities you are trying to project unto people? You wouldn't want to listen to an opinion of someone who doesn't play a game mode being discussed would you?

I would like to know if you play PVP at all? Because at the very least you would know they wouldn't implement friendly fire in parties and alliances, and you would also know that most MMOs have a way of addressing people not getting friendly fire from all their teammates during a fight. It seems like you are talking from a place of complete ignorance.

Let us know which MMO has party members killing each other with friendly fire too. That would be interesting to me as none of the ones I've played has had it be a problem. That sounds tedious for any class with AOE.

How is the statement malicious? You brought up how you reach crystal in many seasons and I'm asking if you're trying to say that you're better than me so your opinion carries more weight? If you're not doing that, then I apologise, there are people who will flex their own achievements to make their opinions seem stronger. That said, your rank is completely irrelevant since I'm pointing out that MNK has a kit that specialises in single target takedowns (which you have not disproven by saying you don't die to a MNK, I don't either, many others do).

As for friendly fire. OP is asking for FFA. Do you really think they'll let you form parties in FFA PvP? They already won't let you play casual CC with friends because they're worried about pre-mades. If people do choose to roam in groups to hit people not part of their group, they will succumb to friendly fire because so many of our buttons are AoE.