Dear SE, Stop Treating Us Like We Are A Single Community

[SieyaM]

You assume wiping is the only way to lose my guy, we used to time out runs because people dead ass didn;t understand the game back in the day xD And with no cross DC and cross server, you just had to deal. And openers in the Sense of starting with An AoE, like I stated, is bad, Tanks not holding aggro and understanding what enmity is, is bad, which lead to time outs. And were a regular occurrence. This ofc has gotten better, around stormblood, but trusts has made it kinda poop again.

I have been playing since ARR and not once has a run ever timed out, maybe I am just extremely lucky but with all those years using the DF it has never happened. One of us is either having a non-typical experience or is just exaggerating for effect. Again using an AOE on single target would slow down the run sure, but not enough to run out a 90 minute timer, and I cannot remember a tank having so much trouble with enmity management that it caused continuous wipes to either, it is almost always a matter of reminding them to turn on stance.

Edit: I do remember one instance of a timer running out, it was Final Steps of Faith, before the nerf. I was WHM at the time and they made it impossible to heal since the arena was so large and mechanics made players spread to far too remain in range of the healer.

[Xirean]

I have been playing since ARR and not once has a run ever timed out, maybe I am just extremely lucky but with all those years using the DF it has never happened. One of us is either having a non-typical experience or is just exaggerating for effect. Again using an AOE on single target would slow down the run sure, but not enough to run out a 90 minute timer, and I cannot remember a tank having so much trouble with enmity management that it caused continuous wipes to either, it is almost always a matter of reminding them to turn on stance.

Edit: I do remember one instance of a timer running out, it was Final Steps of Faith, before the nerf. I was WHM at the time and they made it impossible to heal since the arena was so large and mechanics made players spread to far too remain in range of the healer.

It's uncommon sure, but not impossible even now. I had a Dead Ends run almost time out last year exclusively because of the 1st and 3rd bosses.

[CidHeiral]

I didn't really dive into the forums back then so I am curious about who 'You' was in relation to his quote and what exactly they asked for. The reason I ask is because the two minute meta doesn't feel organic, it feels like purposeful homogenization done to more easily facilitate balance changes in the future. I feel like the communities asked for buff windows to line up better and the devs response was to break the entire system to replace it with the current.

Raiders complained about their buffs not lining up so the devs made them line up. Personally I think the new system is awful and whether you agree or disagree is up to you, but there's not some big conspiracy behind it. Yoship was crystal clear on why it was implemented.

If I had to wager I'd say XIV is starting to enter maintenance mode. No, not that it's dying, just that they are starting to settle on more simple systems that are easier to adjust and are thus less time intensive. Every MMO I've seen that's lasted more than seven or eight years starts to do this and only WoW has gone back on it at a later date.

Maintenance mode means the lights are still on but the game is otherwise dead and not being developed further which clearly isn't the case here. FFXIV's combat issues and WoW's prune were both the result of implementing player feedback. In WoW's case it was players complaining their hotbars were too full, among other things I'm sure.

With that being said, both systems have been tried now so they should have some consensus on which the communities like or dislike more. If I had to wager then I'd say come Dawntrail XIV will have it's long term system in place and judging from Yoshidas comments it's probably not going to be the two minute. Then again he could be exaggerating the changes in Dawntrail or that particular system may just not be part of it. We'll find out.

I'm not a game dev of course but from my view I'm not seeing a way out of this situation without just removing raid buffs entirely. I think it would do wonders for job design as well.

No it was more casual players.

Wrong.

[yoshinoharu]

Raiders complained about their buffs not lining up so the devs made them line up. Personally I think the new system is awful and whether you agree or disagree is up to you, but there's not some big conspiracy behind it. Yoship was crystal clear on why it was implemented.



Maintenance mode means the lights are still on but the game is otherwise dead and not being developed further which clearly isn't the case here. FFXIV's combat issues and WoW's prune were both the result of implementing player feedback. In WoW's case it was players complaining their hotbars were too full, among other things I'm sure.



I'm not a game dev of course but from my view I'm not seeing a way out of this situation without just removing raid buffs entirely. I think it would do wonders for job design as well.



Wrong.

Honestly we can't really say officially what they were responding to. The only official statement that we have from Square Enix is that 'players around the world were complaining that it was too difficult.' Since they made the changes without really answering why until Yoshi P's statement. Either way, the difficulty was complained about so they started designing out the difficulty. It's really as simple as that. Who they were responding to is largely irrelevant, I think we are all in agreement that whoever they listened to was wrong and should not have been listened to in the first place, they were just loud.

[Absurdity]

FFXIV's combat issues and WoW's prune were both the result of implementing player feedback. In WoW's case it was players complaining their hotbars were too full, among other things I'm sure.

WoW's complaints were actually justified at the time since Mists of Pandaria added way too many abilities baseline that were previously specilization specific, so you ended up with like 48+ actually useful abilities, the devs just took it way too far...déjà vu.

[MahthildisMMORPG]

Y'all are all talking back and forth. Just post the receipts involving the 2-minute meta. Enough with this he said, she said, nonsense.

[MahthildisMMORPG]

WoW's complaints were actually justified at the time since Mists of Pandaria added way too many abilities baseline that were previously specilization specific, so you ended up with like 48+ actually useful abilities, the devs just took it way too far...déjà vu.

FFXIV honestly should cut down on their abilities. We have too much. But most people won't appreciate having less all too much. A skill tree will alleviate a lot of issues, but that'll cause issues. Just tired of the button bloat.

[MahthildisMMORPG]

FFXIV honestly should cut down on their abilities. We have too much. No reason some classes should have like 30+ different stuff on the hot bar. I own a Logitec

[REDACTED]

[SieyaM]

Y'all are all talking back and forth. Just post the receipts involving the 2-minute meta. Enough with this he said, she said, nonsense.

The only official statement is that "players complained", they never say how many or which players.

[yoshinoharu]

Y'all are all talking back and forth. Just post the receipts involving the 2-minute meta. Enough with this he said, she said, nonsense.

Agreed. The only official statement that was made was the one that Yoshi P recently did. For posterity I'll post it here:

"That's a difficult question," begins Yoshi-P. "We have skill rotations varying between 60 and 120 seconds for the most intense phases and that's how it works currently. But the reason it's like this today is that we've received, in the past, feedback from all over the world saying that the timing of fights were difficult, it was difficult to align skills between classes, we were asked to unify everything, and precisely because we received these requests to homogenize this, we homogenized it".

"We're okay with making things a little crazy and having different timings between all the classes, but again, we made these changes because we got feedback that it was too difficult before. We understand that there are two types of players, so going forward, Regardless of whether we change this or not, the community needs to reach a consensus: what is better? Before changing something we need to get feedback from everyone"

My original statement is that asking the community to reach a consensus about changes that happen to the game doesn't make sense and is an unreasonable request due to the scale of the community. I was originally referring to this concept that the entire community needs to come to an agreement, it's not feasible when you are considering the individual needs of 1.4 million players and the many sub-communities within that mass of players.