7.0 Summoner Dreams?

[SoloWingMetatron]

If I had the task of designing Summoner for FFXIV, I'd make it a true pet class first and foremost...In MMO's "Summoner" type jobs have always worked best when leaning into the pet class archetype in some way in my opinion.

My attempt at a rough draft. Suggestions welcome.

Summons
I would divide the Summons into 3 pet types (Melee/Ranged/DoT)

- Melee (Ruby/Topaz Carbuncle - Ifrit/Titan) - Summons that specialize in heavy single target damage. Ideal for bossing and singular enemies.
- Ranged (Emerald/Obsidian Carbuncle - Garuda/Ramuh) - Summons that specialize in AoE damage. Ideal for multiple/group targets.
- DoT (Sapphire/Moonstone Carbuncle - Leviathan/Shiva) - Summons that specialize on DoT damage. Multipurpose - Can be brought into combat to cast debilitating DoT's before being switched out for a Melee/Ranged Summon. (Unlocked at Lvl 50)
*Summon Glamour allows the player to choose which category each Summon appears in - Ability effects also change accordingly.

Summon Abilities:
Each Summon type would be a true pet that is permanently summoned at the players side (just like Carbuncle/Egi are now) - Summons will auto-attack during combat and have a number of priority "command" abilities that are executed by the player to command the Summon to perform the desired ability.

Melee/Ranged Summons:
- Ability 1 - Flat damage - Gain 1 stack of Aetherflow upon execution.
- Ability 2 - Damage accompanied with a respective debuff (Stun, Heavy, Freeze, Paralyze) - Gain 1 stack of Aetherflow upon execution.
- Enkindle 1 - Summons first signature ability - Requires 1 stack of Aetherflow to execute.
- Enkindle 2 - Summons second signature ability - Requires 2 stacks of Aetherflow to execute.(Unlocked at Lvl 60)

DoT Summons (Unlocked at Lvl 50):
- Ability 1 - Single target DoT - Gain 1 stack of Aetherflow upon execution.
- Ability 2 - AoE DoT - Gain 1 stack of Aetherflow upon execution.
- Enkindle 1 - Refresh DoTs - Requires 1 stack of Aetherflow.
- Enkindle 2 - Detonate DoTs for high damage - Requires 2 stacks of Aetherflow.(Unlocked at Lvl 60)

Demi Summons - (Bahamut/Phoenix/Odin):
Upon exhausting both Aetherflow Stacks, The player gains access to the Summon Demi ability - A large temporary Demi Summon will be called forth for a period of time and would function much like the current Demi's. However each Demi will fall into one of the 3 core pet types respectively. (Unlocked at Lvl 70 - 100)

- Melee - Odin - Close range, cleaves with Zantetsuken, applies vulnerability.
- Ranged - Bahamut - Functions as his 5.0 iteration, raw damage.
- DoT - Phoenix - Functions the same as his 5.0 iteration, however ability damage is applied via a burn DoT.

Summon Evolution:
- As the player levels up and grows as a Summoner so to do the Summons themselves.
- At specific level cap milestones (50/75/100) - The Summons appearance will change and evolve, becoming larger and more fully formed as the Summoner/Summon grows in power. The final forms looking something similar to that of the current Gemstone Summons.
*Summon Glamour would allow players to set which stage of evolution each Summon appears as.

Utility:
The player will also have access to a number of spells that will buff the Summon/Party in regards to damage output and defense.
- Rouse/Spur/Radiant Aegis/Searing Light

Summon Glamour:
A glamour system UI added to the player section of the menu.
- Themed on the pages of the Summoner's grimoire.
- Players can customize their Summons in a number of ways - Identity (eg - Ifrit glamoured to Ravana), Evolution Rank, Size
*This UI system could also double up for a Fairy glamour system on Scholar.

[SieyaM]

Snip

In the end, one of these pets would do marginally more damage than the other and that is what you would use, the other two might as well not exist and that's a lot of work to put in for two pets that will never see the light of day. Also for whatever reason pets never worked out very well in XIV, commands were prone to ghosting using up the CD but not executing.

[rawker]

snip

This can be circumvented by treating all summoned abilities as if the SMN casted it but the casting range will originate where the pet is located. This and just the pet plays an animation. Why? Us performing oGCDs abruptly terminates a previously playing animation to make way for the pressed oGCD's animation to play. So why not do the same with summoned pets?

Look at when we're having connection issues, the animation of the skills, even cast times, still play but the damage does not register.

Also to make it more responsive, pet movement should be faster than the players, even when we're under Sprint.

This change can also be done with SCH... and get rid of Seraph (Yes, I literally hate it but I'm forced to deal with the jank).

[SieyaM]

This can be circumvented by treating all summoned abilities as if the SMN casted it but the casting range will originate where the pet is located. This and just the pet plays an animation. Why? Us performing oGCDs abruptly terminates a previously playing animation to make way for the pressed oGCD's animation to play. So why not do the same with summoned pets?

Look at when we're having connection issues, the animation of the skills, even cast times, still play but the damage does not register.

Also to make it more responsive, pet movement should be faster than the players, even when we're under Sprint.

This change can also be done with SCH... and get rid of Seraph (Yes, I literally hate it but I'm forced to deal with the jank).

I don't know exactly how the code works for XIV but I have a feeling this is not a feasible solution, otherwise they would have done it for Searing Light instead of just having the summoner cast it, it also would have worked before the change when SMN still had pets to command and they never implemented such a change.

[rawker]

I don't know exactly how the code works for XIV but I have a feeling this is not a feasible solution, otherwise they would have done it for Searing Light instead of just having the summoner cast it, it also would have worked before the change when SMN still had pets to command and they never implemented such a change.

How is it not feasible? The only change to be done will be the check where the ability will originate. And I find it quite baffling knowing that pets in mmos aren't a new concept but 14's engine isn't capable of handling such despite having initial code to handle it?

If so, i think this is not a technical issue but a prioritization issue. They have the resources to do so. For sure they have a way to test it and emulate worst case scenarios.

[SieyaM]

How is it not feasible? The only change to be done will be the check where the ability will originate. And I find it quite baffling knowing that pets in mmos aren't a new concept but 14's engine isn't capable of handling such despite having initial code to handle it?

If so, i think this is not a technical issue but a prioritization issue. They have the resources to do so. For sure they have a way to test it and emulate worst case scenarios.

I don't know very much about XIV's engine but I do know they messed around with pets for at least 4 years and never got it quite right. It is usually never as simple as "just change originating location", especially in a game that has been ongoing and changing for 10 years. Code easily gets entangled in ways never intended. There is after all the whole TF2 coconut story to show how code can be very strange and unpredictable at times.

[Silverquick]

How is it not feasible? The only change to be done will be the check where the ability will originate. And I find it quite baffling knowing that pets in mmos aren't a new concept but 14's engine isn't capable of handling such despite having initial code to handle it?

If so, i think this is not a technical issue but a prioritization issue. They have the resources to do so. For sure they have a way to test it and emulate worst case scenarios.

Sieya is actually telling you the truth, that really was the way it came out.
Even I remember it from back in the day how jank the pet controls were. I was one of the players that started in ARR and started on SMN.
And that is exactly what happened. I can remember back in the beginning the only pets I used were either the chicken nugget for solo and overworld play for the provoke... or in dungeons./raids Garuda because you had to for the Contagion power for the DoTs. I think by the time of Stormblood due to the reworks only Ifrit ever got used.