Can we have an honest conversation about the Scions? Dawn Trail

[Avoidy]

So on one side of this debate there're people who enjoy the scions, still find them engaging, and don't want them to leave. And on the other side are people who believe the scions have reached the end of their respective character arcs and should bow out to make room for more (potentially) interesting characters.
A happy compromise would be to simply give the current scions new goals to chase and new internal conflicts to overcome. Post-EW should have been setting this up, but instead there was a lot of focus on Zero and her filler subplot, and then she didn't even stick around.

As just one example of how this could work, let's examine Y'shtola. The writers have already met us halfway by giving her a new goal to chase: she wants to return to The First. Now, to make this more interesting we could introduce some urgency to her search. We already know that time works differently between shards. Maybe remind the writers and have Y'shtola genuinely distressed at the prospect of Runar growing old without her or something. Urgency leads calm and sensible people to do desperate things in order to get what they want. So maybe now, at the height of desperation, Y'shtola discovers a method of returning to The First, but it involves doing something uncharacteristically self centered/malicious on her part. So now she has to struggle with, like, "do I stay true to myself and search for another way, or do I put my own desires first even if it harms others?" and to me that sort of dilemma is way more interesting than whatever the hell she does now.

But this is just one character, and if you hate my scenario that's fine; it's just an example, and I wrote it while I was half awake. Done well, I believe an expansion could explore one or two characters in depth like this and even form a plot around their decisions and how the others react to them. In Y'shtola's example, maybe she consults with Thancred and he agrees that she should chase what she wants, just this once. And maybe Urianger learns about this and is appalled. Now all of a sudden there are fundamentla disagreements between party members. I believe there is room for the scions to be interesting, but the writers don't do anything with them so they've gotten stale and feel like catchphrase fanservice characters instead.

Hell, when I think about what they did to Graha, and what they're currently doing to Alphinaud, I get sad. I liked those two characters back when they had an arc. Remember when Alphi was a cocky kid with boundless optimism and confidence until it got a lot of people killed and landed him in exile? He got knocked down so hard, and watching him get back up was really satisfying. In 5.3 when he stood in front of the Eulmore citizens, his character arc felt done to me. It was perfect. But they couldn't just let him go, and they had nowhere to really take him, so now he's crying over the wheelchair main, questioning his decisions again like it's heavensward, freezing up when daddy appears, and just sort of bumbling around and being a mess. Graha as well. Dude used to be the crystal exarch. Talking to him used to be interesting. He was sort of a somber guy with a mysterious affliction and unknown levels of power and wisdom. Then we saved his world and cured him, so now he's just a WoL fanboy who ate a taco in a cutscene. Like, bruh. Give them something to do. Give these people something to want. Make their inclusion mean something. Otherwise, why are they even here? Just to make fans clap when they say the phrase? It's so blatantly superficial, shit feels like a vhs disney sequel.

I'm hoping the focus on Krile will dive into something interesting that was never given the screentime it deserved imo: namely, when Krile got captured in stormblood. IIRC they hooked her up to a machine that basically floods you with other people's memories. It's been years since I went through the msq, but my memory of it was that Krile was basically hooked up to a machine and fed vivid VR-echo simulations of people's deaths over and over and over again for an unknown period of time. When we rescued her and pulled her out of there, she wasn't even remotely phased by it lol. Girl was back to doing Krile things (w/e that is) by the next scene. So I hope dawntrail explores the psychological impact that can have on a person. I also hope they give Erenville some characterization since... he's there, so why not. And maybe let Alisaie actually develop into more than just a headstrong joke, idk.

[Carin-Eri]

I want characters that falter and learn and grow again. Give me a big, lovable, well-meaning meathead of a character, please, and have them actually stick around and have development.

You just, in a way, described Moenbryda

[TheMightyMollusk]

I'm hoping the focus on Krile will dive into something interesting that was never given the screentime it deserved imo: namely, when Krile got captured in stormblood. IIRC they hooked her up to a machine that basically floods you with other people's memories. It's been years since I went through the msq, but my memory of it was that Krile was basically hooked up to a machine and fed vivid VR-echo simulations of people's deaths over and over and over again for an unknown period of time.

She was stuck in a machine to copy her aether signature to make a duplicate Echo, resulting in the Resonance abilities given to Fordola and Zenos. The dead bodies were failed test subjects. Nothing was ever said about any kind of simulations.

[Aravell]

While I'm personally kind of tired of the Scions, I do agree that removing all of them immediately at the same time would create a situation where players would be unable to get to know a new cast in time for the new story arc. That said, if we look at the trailer, most of the Scions really don't have much of a reason to be with us in Dawntrail.

Let's say that Y'shtola leaves to pursue her primary objective of inter-shard travel, maybe she met an alchemist that shares her passion during the Void storyline and is now working with them. Let's also say that Urianger was called away to help the Loporrit to help with another major project, so Thancred picks up Estinien as a travel buddy for his business in the New World. Then let's say that Alphinaud and Alisaie leave off on the vacation that Jullus wanted them to take. So now we have a lighter cast of Scions with just Krile, G'raha, Thancred and Estinien instead of the entire group, that leaves a lot more space for new characters to join our adventure while also having a nice amount of familiar faces.

I'm not a big Scion hater, but if they keep using the same main cast for another new arc, they will eventually get stale. How fast they get stale would, of course, depend on the person.

[KageTokage]

I've honestly not even really put any thought into the roles they'll play in 7.x because I'm just that...uninterested in them at this point.

I'm more curious about what the new characters are bringing to the table.

[Asari5]

two things i feel about dt:

1. i like how they put krile more into the focus.
2. it feels VERY refreshing to have erenville in the team.

i guess that says more or less how i feel about all (well, most) the other scions which we see all the time sticking around. i dont hate them, i would rather say i like them for the most part, but i grew so bored of them.

[sindriiisgaming]

I thought we were done with them. Here is the thing, one of the reasons I'm less excited about dawntrail is because I was seriously under the impression that they were going to phase out the scions and introduce a new cast. It was the perfect opportunity to do so. For example, the scions disband and go about their desires and they can even make the occasional cameo.

Like, is it just me or wouldn't the story be much more exciting if we took the trip to the new world with just Erenville and that hrothgal and the trailers showed mysterious new characters we will meet along the way? That would be so much better...

There is nothing remarkable about the scions... I don't hate them, but TBH they are just not characters that I couldn't live without. A bunch of them have the personality of a wet mop and are all just about doing good... and yeah, cuz being good is good and what not.

Ugh, I don't know if SE believes this cast is more marketable than it actually is.. I feel like at least in my social circles, the scions are just people players put up with to play the game, they don't look forward to seeing what they're up to next. I could also be wrong, but idk, maybe a discussion forms around this. I am firmly in the new cast territory. Seeing the scions be a major part in Dawn Trail made me roll my eyes.

This just doesn't feel like a new beginning. And a lot of it is because of them.

u wanna leave my wol without his best friends and companions? he went through literal hell to save graha. thats my cat and its comming with me everywhere i go

[Avoidy]

She was stuck in a machine to copy her aether signature to make a duplicate Echo, resulting in the Resonance abilities given to Fordola and Zenos. The dead bodies were failed test subjects. Nothing was ever said about any kind of simulations.

Oh, for real? I must've misunderstood that part then, my bad. It's been years.
Even so, abducting someone and using them as a human experiment to duplicate their echo seems like something ... that might mess with you psychologically afterwards??? Like, it was weird that they brushed it off hella fast, is all I'm saying.

edit: Oh, y'know why I remembered it different, is because like you said, the dead bodies were failed test subjects. So I must have assumed that during the testing procedures to copy Krile's echo into them, the echo might have at the very least given Krile some idea of the suffering being inflicted on those subjects. I can't remember if Krile's echo functions differently from the WoL's, but instances of its use in cutscenes show it providing flashbacks from another person's perspective. So I assumed that when they hooked Krile's machine up to a victim, she might have been similarly aware of that victim's life leading up to that point and their death. If her echo functions in the same way that the WoL's does, then this would be really horrible because it could potentially mean that every time you're hooked up to a test subject, you get to learn a little bit about them and maybe even feel the moment the lights go out.

I need to just rewatch the scene but the inn book is crap and I should sleep. It's entirely possible that this scene wasn't nearly as bad since Krile bounces back really really fast from it, but I distinctly remember being horrified on my first playthrough of it.

[Fayt1203]

I wish that at least Alphinaud would be on the sideline for a expansion or two, the guy has been around us 80% of the whole game lifecycle or since mid ARR. The dev said they don't play favorite when it comes to the scions but it is hard to believe that when Yoshi favorite character is Alphinaud and he has been in the main spot for that long

[undull1]

The scions have been written into a creative dead end, there is nothing left for them to do but play fanservice in a flanderised zombie state.

Graha will eat the food for the funneh meme and fanboy over you in a swimsuit.
Urianger will say funny olde english and then do a subterfuge subplot.
Thancred will be the straight man for the beast tribe antics.
Yshtola will solve all the magical magic stuff.
Alphinaud will humblebrag about how woke and basepilled he is for being diplomatic.
Alisae will brag about how much they love to fight.
Estinien will brag about how much they love to fight.

Now eat your slop and get excited for more trailers.