The hate for limited jobs is unjustified

[MikkoAkure]

If a Paladin signs up for a Savage pug and says, "Sorry I can't invuln this mechanic, I never bothered to unlock hallowed ground" he'd be kicked too. Conjurer wants in on an Ultimate? Better put on that stone, and if you haven't unlocked WHM you're getting the boot.

I wouldn’t say that’s the same thing because job abilities and a stone are stupid easy to get while some spells require a party.

BLU is the same thing, except with the one job gimmick (and yes, it's the only gimmick BLU has consistently had in Final Fantasy history -- learning moves from enemies) added on top. Saying a person would want to play BLU but not go learn spells from enemies, the literal one and only thing BLU is known for, is asinine. That's like saying "yeah I want to play Black Mage but you know, I just don't like the whole 'magic damage' part of the job."

That’s exactly why they made it a limited job. Spell hunting and having a large spell list are a balancing nightmare with how FFXIV’s gameplay is structured so it was either “keep the identity but keep it separate” or “forge it into the homogenous mass that all the other jobs are in”.

I don’t think they had a middle ground here without investing significant effort into it. There are 21 other jobs in the game now. To expect the devs to put in a much greater effort on 1 out of 22 is delusional and I wouldn’t want the rest of the game’s content to be dragged down by it.

people still require you to have certain spells or you will be kicked. So all this fear of not every spell being useful or being excluded for not having them... that's what we have right now.

Again, this is different. BLU is its own separate content in the game and if you’re doing BLU-specific content then you should be prepared. The roulettes are already uneven as it is. I don’t want to have to worry about if the BLU that joined can do more than just slap the mobs with a fish. People might just kick all BLU. There’s also the question of balance. You might have a list of spells from trials but you still have to do the same damage as everyone else so if you lacked the best spells in the game then your DPS will suffer harshly compared to the RDM who put in absolutely no effort except to be there and finish a few quests.

[CaptainLagbeard]

They COULD turn Blue Mage into a regular Job, but would you want a simplified BLM? Because that's what it would be.

The main purpose of the Limited Jobs was to have some special classes that don't need to adhere to silly ideas such as balance or the holy trinity of roles.

The only things I would change about Blue Mage is letting it reach the max level (90 for EW, and whatever DT's max level is going to be), let them in every content with a pre-made group the way they can currently but add a restriction where having even one BLU in the party locks everyone out of loot in Savage and Extreme.

[Sindele]

I'll appreciate you to not put words into my mouth in order to try to make your points.

If in order for you to have your job fantasy for your combat job to subsequently miss out on most of the combat portion of the game, well congratulations, the current iteration is exactly for you. You have it. Good job. Relish in it.

But balanced doesn't have to be boring and I do not sign to Blue Mage's identity being "overpowered job". I'll not pretend as if anything XIV has put in place is an accurate representation of any of the jobs we're used to seeing over the course of the franchises history, but at least they were playable in the content we're given.

I did nothing of the sort in that post. That whole section is before the quote because it's not addressing you specifically.

That said, what you're saying now fits it: I don't have "a combat job", and that's exactly the point. I cycle through 6-8 combat jobs to do the mundane stuff depending on how I feel. I play Blue Mage when I want to do what Blue Mage does best - and that's considerably more than just the Carnivale. (Eureka and DDs would have been nice, though.)

No, balance doesn't have to be boring - but it would unquestionably and unequivocally be more boring than what we have now. I've got 19 jobs to run the balanced stuff with. There's only one job that does anything like what Blue Mage can do.

[Powercow]

I wouldn’t say that’s the same thing because job abilities and a stone are stupid easy to get while some spells require a party.

If BLU wasn't level-capped so low, they could get many of them solo. The few that can't should be gained from normal modes. The whole RNG aspect for non-sync'd learning has always been dumb anyway.

That’s exactly why they made it a limited job. Spell hunting and having a large spell list are a balancing nightmare with how FFXIV’s gameplay is structured so it was either “keep the identity but keep it separate” or “forge it into the homogenous mass that all the other jobs are in”.

I don’t think they had a middle ground here without investing significant effort into it. There are 21 other jobs in the game now. To expect the devs to put in a much greater effort on 1 out of 22 is delusional and I wouldn’t want the rest of the game’s content to be dragged down by it.

But they already did all the work with the big spell list and the spell learning and the UI elements and whatnot. If we were discussing a theoretical BLU that didn't exist, I'd probably agree that putting in so much more effort into one job would be silly. What's done is done, and there's no way to go back and switch some of the BLU development resources that have already been spent on other aspects of the game, but at least if it were a real job those resources would feel like a quirky aspect of the job's history.

As for all 110+ spells not being amazing at endgame, well I can tell you precisely how often a Paladin uses Rage of Halone at 90, or a Monk Tornado Kick. [The answer is 0 because those skills got replaced.] Or a Black Mage using Scathe. [Also 0 but Scathe suuuuucks.] And when was the last time you saw a SMN cast Physick when they weren't just goofin' around?

Again, this is different. BLU is its own separate content in the game and if you’re doing BLU-specific content then you should be prepared. The roulettes are already uneven as it is. I don’t want to have to worry about if the BLU that joined can do more than just slap the mobs with a fish. People might just kick all BLU. There’s also the question of balance. You might have a list of spells from trials but you still have to do the same damage as everyone else so if you lacked the best spells in the game then your DPS will suffer harshly compared to the RDM who put in absolutely no effort except to be there and finish a few quests.

The roulettes (with the exception of Mentor roulette getting an EX or something) are all so trivial that honestly if the BLU was shooting out 100 potency fish per gcd, well, at least it's something. You can actually queue into roulettes as base classes and it's honestly just mildly annoying when you see that -- I think the number of genuinely lazy and bad BLUs would be rather minimal. Oh sure there'd be some troll who only chucks fish in someone's Necron trial, but that's not much different than a "Thunder only Black Mage."

As for putting in more effort, eh, they could make the spells attainable in the normal versions and up the learn chance to 100% for group stuff. Like if some spell comes off the 83 trial, you'd need to run the normal mode as a BLU once to learn it; this is hardly a big ask. And if you're a BLU main going through the story for the first time, it's just free. Is this more effort than, say, a WAR's skills? Sure. But that's the point of the job, and if someone doesn't want to learn spells from enemies... then why play the job centered on that idea?

[Palladiamors]

I wouldn’t say that’s the same thing because job abilities and a stone are stupid easy to get while some spells require a party.



That’s exactly why they made it a limited job. Spell hunting and having a large spell list are a balancing nightmare with how FFXIV’s gameplay is structured so it was either “keep the identity but keep it separate” or “forge it into the homogenous mass that all the other jobs are in”.

I don’t think they had a middle ground here without investing significant effort into it. There are 21 other jobs in the game now. To expect the devs to put in a much greater effort on 1 out of 22 is delusional and I wouldn’t want the rest of the game’s content to be dragged down by it.



Again, this is different. BLU is its own separate content in the game and if you’re doing BLU-specific content then you should be prepared. The roulettes are already uneven as it is. I don’t want to have to worry about if the BLU that joined can do more than just slap the mobs with a fish. People might just kick all BLU. There’s also the question of balance. You might have a list of spells from trials but you still have to do the same damage as everyone else so if you lacked the best spells in the game then your DPS will suffer harshly compared to the RDM who put in absolutely no effort except to be there and finish a few quests.

Except it isn't hard to balance and everything required to open them up already exists within game. I'll do a write up here in a bit but you can relatively easily introduce blue mage into regular content AND have them fill any role while also maintaining Blu as it is now. Everyone can win in this situation if The dev team opts to put the effort into it.

The only thing I pause on are their weapons because that particular area would require a stat rework and adding new canes regularly.

[Cach]

"Limited Jobs" are side content masquerading as a playable Class/Job. That is the reason for their existence.

This frustrates people that can't grasp that concept.

[Allistar]

I'm guessing you never played FFXI BLU

[Teno]

"Limited Jobs" are side content masquerading as a playable Class/Job. That is the reason for their existence.

This frustrates people that can't grasp that concept.

*This frustrates people who wanted beastmaster/blue mage as regular jobs.

There, fixed it for you.

[Rolder50]

Beastmaster could easily have been a regular job. As an example, I would like to refer to WoW hunter, where you can collect pets to your hearts content and it works fine.

[sindriiisgaming]

Beastmaster could easily have been a regular job. As an example, I would like to refer to WoW hunter, where you can collect pets to your hearts content and it works fine.

this game doesnt work like wow. you cannot ask them to overhaul the entire gameplay just for it to be wow. if bst was a regular job it would be barebones with other pets just being the same flavour as half of the rest of them.

I dont think it's that absurd to think a core feature of blue mage is its gamebreakingly powerful spells. Blue mage being locked out of duty roulettes is definitely questionable though since many jobs are already very much overpowered in normal content. Warrior is ridiculously powerful in regular dungeons, it just doesnt matter because it's regular dungeons.

the cooldown on diamond back is what 2minutes max? diamond back completly nerfs mecanics - see eden 8 savage blu mage guide
if the solution is to remove the op stuff, then you remove the fun of blu entirely. if you want a blu that isnt a blue then play picto or something else.. a job shouldnt get castrated just to masquerade in current content for nostaligias sake

*This frustrates people who wanted beastmaster/blue mage as regular jobs.
There, fixed it for you.

you havent debunked his point, so hes still correct

They are just an absolute waste of Development ressources. You cant even run roulettes with them. Whats the point of them?

try to clear something axtually hard on the job and you will understand. i recomend Hades or thordin ex

If BLU wasn't level-capped so low, they could get many of them solo.

exactly. youde remove the point of MMO by just soloing the raids

I'm guessing you never played FFXI BLU

Irrelivant take. this isnt ff11. go play ff11 if you want ff11

I can't prog raids as BLU/BST, I can't do Deep Dungeons as BLU/BST, I can't do Ultimates (even old ones) as BLU/BST, and most hilariously, I cannot take the jobs specifically tailormade to function really well in open world exploring/finding monsters to fight, into Eureka/Bozja, 'openworld instances' with many monsters with unique skills and abilities. THAT is why they're 'limited'. I still have no idea why BLU can't do Eureka, the absolute easiest of 'it's free content' for SE to throw out for people and they didn't do it

OP, you can be reductive about 'how the job would play if it were a real job' all you like, it just demonstrates a lack of creativity/imagination on your part.

yea i just dont agree here, tell me why you think it should be ok for
* people who slaved on ultimates for nothing more than the experience just watch as blu mages go in there and diamond back everything.. it annoyed me watching it for shiva and im sure itl upset ultimate raiders. missunderstandably. ultimate is NOT for the reward, its for the experience. the reward is just the incentive to endure it, but after you clear its the eperience that stays with you. - the words of a friend of mine who is a penta legend

as for how it should be designed.. it literally cannot work. and you dont get that. they cannot go around deciding what blu spells should be in it, if any. the whole point of the job is for you to customize it. if they go adding there own, theyve taken away everything that might have attracted you to it. i guarentee if they made blu unlimited people would hate it and unsub

I brought that up as that's commonly used as the reasoning for BLU being Limited when that's never something I felt in any previous Final Fantasy game for a Blue Mage. They're never felt any more or less powerful than any other job I could play as.

so using diamond back to ignore light rampant isnt OP?
then by all means go ahead and show the rest of us how its done

I'm not used to Sindri having the correct take and being surrounded by terrible ones, but here we are.

welcome to the crazy farm