This frequency of English localization issues is unacceptable

[Telkira]

There are people who do learn through anime. In fact there's enough that's it's a stereotype for foreigners over there. My source for this is from the trash taste podcast (people who actually live in Japan).

I literally said in my previous post that people are not going to pass the Proficiency Test with knowledge absorbed by watching anime.

They are not actually learning the language, just memorizing a sundry list of phrases, words, etc.

Also, podcasters and personalities whose whole MO are being a foreigner somewhere may tend to exaggerate things like that so that way they have something to relay towards their audiences. I don't doubt that the stereotype doesn't have examples, but it's certainly not something that's as common as you would think, and it's definitely not something I argued in favor of. If you're going to learn a language, learn it the right way.

Not meant as a jab or anything but someone who doesn't speak the language who says " I normally watch fan-subs and those are pretty accurate. " Means nothing to me. Your opinion of that isn't your own but someone else's since you can't understand it.

You're right, I can't understand it, but it's not difficult to figure out when/if something doesn't add up. I've literally done that with FFXIV, where I copy the English dialog, notice weirdness, then boot up in Japanese, copy it, then compare it by researching what's different. Or I can ask someone on one of the many translator/sub communities, or one of my friends who knows Japanese.

As for fansubbers not being credible, people are always looking over each other's work. Different sub groups talk to each other and share notes, and it's not uncommon to see them openly discuss things and provide feedback. It's also not difficult for viewers to download subtitle packs and plug them in to see how they compare against one another. They may not always align 1:1 but it's usually pretty damn close. There's a commitment to both accuracy and ensuring that what is spoken is properly conveyed, with the rest of the show doing the rest of the work.

I'm learning the language myself and even with my limited knowledge I can still identify that the subs don't always match what they say.

Build an understanding of it that's at least on par with that of a gradeschooler before trying to market yourself as a speaker of that language. I'm going to take the word of people who actually are fluent and regularly partake in translation of content before someone like you (no offense).
Even remedial knowledge that takes time and dedication that not a lot of people have access to, hence why I think SE giving people a faithful translation option in addition to the localized content for EN, at least, would be ideal.

[Thurmnmurmn]

snip

Didn't know there was only one way to learn a language. Everyone learns differently. A lot of people have learned a language via movies/shows.
As for the podcast, one of them (Joey) is Japanese. So no he's not playing the foreigner role and he's the one who actually made that comment.

It's a little sad you would wanna spend your time researching what's being said through other people instead of learning it yourself. Sounds like you put enough effort into your research to learn it instead.
I said nothing about the validity of fan subs so w.e

You know nothing about my understanding of the language. All I said is I'm learning it. But sure, guess I'm at a grade schooler lvl. Even if that's true. It's still a better understanding than what you have.

SE made the decision to change the dialogue. They have the right as its their game and they probably have very good reasons to do so. If you wanna see the Japanese experience instead, learn the language. It's as simple as that.

[Boblawblah]

I feel like this is appropriate at this point in the conversation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvNxgHTWIlo

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

I feel like this is appropriate at this point in the conversation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvNxgHTWIlo

Aww, its not Rick Astley.

[Jeeqbit]

That Fan Fest event clearly responded to all of these arguments and addressed them pretty directly, multiple times, saying that they believe localization is important and the only way they can do it and they also believe their localization is better than what a lot of other translators can do, because they have direct access to the writers where they can ask them questions about how they want the story to come across and what emotions they want to convey.

Perhaps these points can be pressed and protested some more but they seem pretty steadfast in seeing it that way. I'm not a translator so who am I to disagree with them if this is what their experience has taught them?

[Jojoya]

snip

You're awfully salty because of the change to how one character is presented in trivial dialog.

Still waiting for your "outright revisionist" examples from the game story. The salacious side of Haurchefant's character had no bearing on the actual story so that's not a change to it. Now if he had been tumbling Ysayle on the sly in the JP version of the MSQ and that was removed from the EN version, that would be an example of outright revision of the story.

And no, you still haven't been robbed of the right. You are, after all, getting information about all these revisions from somewhere since you don't know JP to discover any revisions for yourself. You're still getting the chance to make your own decision.

That you think the localization is poor in quality because it's not an exact translation is your subjective opinion. Personally, I'm happy with the localization if it means I'm not getting crap like "all your base are belong to us" that would come from an exact translation. Some of the funnier bits from Josh Strife Hayes' "Worst MMO Ever" series comes from the games that opted for exact translations instead of localization.

[Telkira]

That Fan Fest event clearly responded to all of these arguments and addressed them pretty directly, multiple times, saying that they believe localization is important and the only way they can do it and they also believe their localization is better than what a lot of other translators can do, because they have direct access to the writers where they can ask them questions about how they want the story to come across and what emotions they want to convey.

I'm sure they've expressed support for the Localization over Translation approach, but that doesn't mean it has to be the only available approach available, at least officially. They could very easily pull out, test and release a separate, optional language pack that's more in-line with the initial script that's faithful and accurate, without all of the unnecessary fluff they opted to include with the EN localization.

I mean the canonical Haurchefant, quest titles, dialog, actor names, etc. that's serviceable and consistent with the JP source material. Yes, it's more work, but ultimately it would be better to have this as an option. A lot of players genuinely do not like the work of the localization, many players are emphatically against 'localization' as a concept and would prefer their content just be faithfully translated.

Also, I've never found any sentence or statement that actually addressed these arguments. I've skimmed the Fanfest three times already just to gauge what they said, and there wasn't much that they said which wasn't already public knowledge.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

I'm sure they've expressed support for the Localization over Translation approach, but that doesn't mean it has to be the only available approach available, at least officially. They could very easily pull out, test and release a separate, optional language pack that's more in-line with the initial script that's faithful and accurate, without all of the unnecessary fluff they opted to include with the EN localization.

I mean the canonical Haurchefant, quest titles, dialog, actor names, etc. that's serviceable and consistent with the JP source material. Yes, it's more work, but ultimately it would be better to have this as an option. A lot of players genuinely do not like the work of the localization, many players are emphatically against 'localization' as a concept and would prefer their content just be faithfully translated.

Also, I've never found any sentence or statement that actually addressed these arguments. I've skimmed the Fanfest three times already just to gauge what they said, and there wasn't much that they said which wasn't already public knowledge.

That would be a lot of extra work. not "easily" as you say.

[Telkira]

You're awfully salty because of the change to how one character is presented in trivial dialog.

Yes, I am, because it was outright censorship, plain and simple.
The LOC team saw what the actual creators of the game and its content had made and sought to 'correct' it against the better judgement and internal processes while creating a fundamentally worse experience for players that was also extremely dishonest and not representative of what the initial vision was. Rather than reach out to the proper parties or take the proper steps to discuss things or voice their concerns, they took it upon themselves to go over their heads and roll out a different character, one that was, arguably, far more unsettling than the comedic goofball that he originally was in his canon iteration.

Still waiting for your "outright revisionist" examples from the game story. The salacious side of Haurchefant's character had no bearing on the actual story so that's not a change to it. Now if he had been tumbling Ysayle on the sly in the JP version of the MSQ and that was removed from the EN version, that would be an example of outright revision of the story.

The OP cites some examples of dialog being completely changed, and there are plenty of others.
A personal example that I can cite is the dialog of the Dwarves from the NiER questline, whereby the underlying motivations and even personalities are completely changed in the EN language, with the JP version being much more succinct and straightforward.

And no, you still haven't been robbed of the right. You are, after all, getting information about all these revisions from somewhere since you don't know JP to discover any revisions for yourself. You're still getting the chance to make your own decision.

You're not making any sense. I'm arguing that Western audiences are being robbed of their right to know whether they would find the original Japanese content boring because it wasn't translated or even adapted, but outright filtered through the lens of a localization process that deviated egregiously from the source material. Entire dialog trees hit differently thanks to the changes in dialog and literation that they genuinely come across as parodies in many aspects, or were overloaded with so much fluff that the contempt felt for the source material is unignorable.

Some of the funnier bits from Josh Strife Hayes' "Worst MMO Ever" series comes from the games that opted for exact translations instead of localization.

Those were machine-translations, not proper, faithful translations.
His Warframe video made me not trust his reviews and opinions. He sang the praises of Warframe while complaining about literal non-issues and not critiquing the game for its actual flaws. (I actually play Warframe, and people who play also hated his review).

[Telkira]

That would be a lot of extra work. not "easily" as you say.

They already have the proper translated content/data, it's all there. Koji Fox in the last fan-fest was very descriptive about the chain of command. It would just be a little bit more time to actually implement and test, but it wouldn't be more difficult than that since it's already in English.