Other Job Reworks?

[Aravell]

I think BRD could use a rework tbh, I don't think I've seen anyone that genuinely enjoys the direction BRD is going in. MCH seems another likely candidate for a rework, it seems to be at a dead end in terms of design at the moment, same with SMN, there's not much design space available to either of those jobs aside from skill recolours or adding more pointless OGCDs that don't have cohesion with the kit in general due to the rigidity of their design.

[Renathras]

I think if you reworked tanks defensively or one tank that way you'd have to honestly just go all the way of setting each tank with a more defined defensive kit that feels different from one another but they're also all pretty much viable.

I feel like the problem with this is "But what if the others are good right now?"

PLD and GNB are honestly in pretty good spots right now, WAR's main problem is it's a bit too powerful in AOE situations. DRK is the odd man out. It'd be like looking at Casters and saying, "Well, SMN is kind of lacking right now while BLM and RDM feel good...so obviously we need to rework all three, can't do just one, we need to go all the way."

GNB is not extremely overpowered but its kit is solid and consistent. It has nothing that makes things a cakewalk, but it has the tools it needs to succeed, with a strong offensive kit and functional defensive kit.

PLD is slightly underpowered offensively but somewhat overpowered defensively, neither so much that it breaks the Job, so it works well. It has strong party utility and healing tools with Clemency, but requiring a conscious choice to forego damage if you want to be a temp healer.

WAR's kit works great. Its healing is a kind of overpowered in AOE situations due to how Raw Intuition/Nascent Flash work, but in single target fights (Extremes/Savages), that is considerably cut down to size. I still have no idea why Shake It Off got buffed, though.

Compared to those, you then have DRK. DRK has WAR's playstyle with GNB's defensive utility, and people constantly asking for it to be different than WAR...while asking for it to have WAR's tools.

I DO feel that Tanks are overall too powerful in terms of sustain right now, but I'm not sure the answer is so much "throw them all out" as it is "lower the power level of those overall tools". DRK, on the other hand, has the unique problem of needing to be/do something unique and, right now, it doesn't other than TBN.

EDIT:

I think BRD could use a rework tbh, I don't think I've seen anyone that genuinely enjoys the direction BRD is going in. MCH seems another likely candidate for a rework, it seems to be at a dead end in terms of design at the moment, same with SMN, there's not much design space available to either of those jobs aside from skill recolours or adding more pointless OGCDs that don't have cohesion with the kit in general due to the rigidity of their design.

I'm consistently confused by people saying SUMMONER has no design space to go in. Like, I honestly have no idea how that makes sense to people conceptually.

It's the opposite problem: It's got so much space, with the problem being the Devs needing to fill it.

The Primal system (Gemshine/Precious Brilliance/Astral Flow) is extremely open-ended, since you could do anything with it. We have just three examples, and for all they're lambasted, they're all unique. We have examples of long cast time spells, normal cast time spells, instant cast spells, and a 1-2 melee combo. Aside from that, we've also seen Ruin/Outburst repurposed (by the Demis), meaning they could extend that to Primals in the future as well to create additional effects. It is probably the single most open-ended Job in the game right now. That is the exact opposite of "not much design space available".

That's also not BRD's problem, honestly. BRD's problem is it is aimeless. Its focus is all over the place, but not in any cohesive way, making it a lot like old SMN that KIND of worked, but was a total accident of nature rather than arriving at its place through good and deliberate design decisions.

I just see this wording a lot, and it makes zero sense. SMN is probably the most open-ended Job right now due to how it is set up and what all could be added, as well as room for plenty of flavor. It could literally grab into BLU and just rob it blind of some things like Ravana's 4 hit attack (which is not much different than Garuda, yet that one is praised for...reasons; yes yes, the way it buffs, but in practice, that's how it's used). Not to mention they could someday go wild and do things like Eden double-summoning or Stocking for later (FF8 aside).

It's okay to say one doesn't like SMN because they find it too simplistic, but saying it has no design space is just...I dunno, doesn't make sense, I guess.

[Rithy255]

I feel like the problem with this is "But what if the others are good right now?"

The original post contained that I replied to would be that Dark Knight would get barriers more often + Mitigation, This would most certainly put Dark Knight in a league of it's own, I actually think Dark Knight defensively is already at least on par with PLD outside sustain, with how it's kit works, I think even with just how Dark mind works and oblation is it sets Dark knight up to be very good mitigation wise and stands above tanks, the only advantage PLD has is you can be more flexible with holy sheltrons or help in double tank busters more. PLD also suffers from the longest invul which infact hurts its defensive viability in a lot of situations and is more of a hinderance. You're under selling Dark Knights defensive value here which has always been pretty good (despite what I've thought in the past and others have). It's main issue is aoe survivability which barriers, not a lot of sustain, a magic only mit are the reason why it falls behind.

your Summoner/BLM/RDM comparison doesn't really make much sense to me, as Dark Knight already is on par with other tanks if not better and my whole goal wasn't to make all the tanks to dark knights levels it was to change up on how all the tanks defensively mitigate in the first place as the current design is very samey, I think the point I'm making is all tanks deserve defensive adjustments in some form or another to stand out from one another, you can do this in a way that also makes them all viable aswell. You also can't really just buff a tank defensively (like DRK) and expect it to be perfectly balanced without changing up other defensives, considering how strong Dark knight already is defensive wise.

PLD is actually defensively is very similar to gunbreaker Tbh I'd like that to change, PLD having clemency is sort of not needed in the current design of the game and cover is even more of a joke so I'll hardly count those abilities until they actually have a place in PLD's kit. Warrior is massive on sustaining others? which makes no sense to me but also has on par defensives, I think warrior could genuinely do with a defensive kit overhaul like I suggested. I've talked on how Dark Knight is actually really good defensively.

Even if you want to argue that DRK feels more clunky then other tanks and is in more need, I'd argee but why does PLD have clunky defensives also? why is warriors identity being a paladin and healing allies? I don't really understand why DRK would only get changes defensively.

[rawker]

Since this is in the healer thread, I'd like to chime in more for SCH.
1. Remove Physick and give the pet a low level spell to compensate or increase Embrace's potency, or have Emergency Tactics unlocked at level 30 (i know it looks like Eukrasia).

2. Increase pet movement speed. It moving at the current rate adds to the feeling of unresponsiveness.

3. Return all pet related-skills to the pet hotbar and either remove Dismiss or consolidate it with Summon pet (toggle). Better yet, have the commands be on a seperate radial UI that clearly shows what state it is currently on or when it is summoned or not.

4. Remove Seraph. The extra animation it takes to summon it before taking any action adds to the clunkiness. Not to mention when the effect expires and your base pet's summoning animation is played. Might as well give back to us Rouse.

5. Refund extra MP if we have unused stacks upon casting Aetherflow or allow us to regen MP with Energy Drain, once again.

6. Make us the more burst healing barrier healer, and SGE more mitigation barrier healer.

7. Pet idling when no apparent healing is needed or when the SCH can take care of it, also needs to be addressed. Might i suggest that we can toggle the pet to deal damage, think Cleric Stance but for the pet only.

[GoatOfWar]

I feel like if you gave oblation a small life steal effect (lets say 250 potency per hit, Not AOE like warrior, less of that.) It would actually be kind of a decent for a skill that fills in some gaps for TBN's nature.

I think most additions to DRK in EW have just been a after thought abilities that can be tacked on without changing rotation, hence how DRK's have so many ogcds now and whatever enhanced unmend is.

Medic tanks are cringe and diminish the need for healers, and take away from healer gameplay. We're tanks, not healers. Since we're all going to be the same job with different animations they should just nerf all the tank sustain down to Drk's level. War in particular is just comical in it's amount of healing and shielding and is in need of nerfs.