What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Vyrerus]

I apologize, you seem to be under the impression that I'm interested in debating with you about your criticisms of the story. I'm not. You're entitled to your opinion, just as I am entitled to mine. And I told you what my opinion was. That's really it. At the end of the day, this is entertainment and the only question that interests me is whether or not I enjoyed it. I did, therefore it's a good product. End of story. Lali-ho!

You're on a discussion board trying to nix discussion after inflaming discussion lol. Living up to that server name.

Anyway, you do know it's entirely possible to enjoy something wholeheartedly, but still see where it is flawed? Like I love The 7th Saga, but it honestly:

Has pretty lackluster music without a lot of variety.
Was tuned in the wrong way by its localization team, making it harder than its Japanese version, Elnard.
Has a broken stat increase exploit for one character that makes 6 hour speed runs possible. Eww.
Has middling replay value mostly due to its character selection.
Has several points of no return that can soft lock your saved file

In spite of all that, I love The 7th Saga. You'd probably see it in my top 10 or top 20 games. But you probably won't see it in most folks top games. It's just not as good as other things.

You can enjoy and love Endwalker all you want, but it won't make it a good story by that "virtue."

[Nebelheim]

A retelling and a reference to something are not the same thing. Otherwise we are going to have to call the first boss of Keeper of the Lake a retelling of the side-scrolling shoot-'em up, Einhander.

Crystal Tower, yeah thats kinda true, it still sits in my head as non-MSQ cause it wasnt when I did it and I think you could argue its just putting the final dungeon of FF3 into FFXIV since I don't think there is actually that much story in FF3 when you are in the CT... Its more like clear the dungeon, kill the boss, beat the game at that point.
Using the same name as something else from another game is something every FF game does, so I don't think that really matters when talking about retelling. Like in FF11, there is a dude named Gilgamesh, but he isn't the dimension hopping Gilgamesh everyone knows.

As for dynamis specifically, I never played FF11, but all I can find about it is that it is a place (specifically a parallel dream-world to the main world) not a type of energy or whatever.

Either way, my point in asking about retellings is that the story for these past few patches sucks because it is a retelling of FFIV. Its no surprise either that the story of Crystal Tower in ARR isn't that great either, and the fact is showed up later for ShB is just cause it was convenient and wasnt some planned idea all the way back from ARR. References, yeah they are everywhere and I prefer original ideas rather than throwbacks.

That being said, until someone shows me, there are not that many (if not only 2) retellings of other FF games. (Which btw doesnt mean I think the story is some award winning thing, I just think its okay.)

There are more then the 2 i mentioned i only mentioned 2 semi recent incidents of ripping aspects of other ff games to retool for ff14. The entire ivalice raids and four lords are other examples of direct retellings of ff11 and ff12/tactics to make those games lore fit into ff14 even if those are side content. Not to mention gulool ja ja the mamool ja in dawntrails trailer is a direct rip/references to a npc with the same name on ff11. And countless monsters ripped from ff6,11,12 and 13. Just because they change the lore from things they rip from other ff games doesn't mean they don't borrow a lot from the previous games that people seem to deny the devs of doing.

[KenZentra]

There are more then the 2 i mentioned i only mentioned 2 semi recent incidents of ripping aspects of other ff games to retool for ff14. The entire ivalice raids and four lords are other examples of direct retellings of ff11 and ff12/tactics to make those games lore fit into ff14 even if those are side content. Not to mention gulool ja ja the mamool ja in dawntrails trailer is a direct rip/references to a npc with the same name on ff11. And countless monsters ripped from ff6,11,12 and 13. Just because they change the lore from things they rip from other ff games doesn't mean they don't borrow a lot from the previous games that people seem to deny the devs of doing.

We are talking about MSQ, not side quests/stories/content. About Gulool Ja Ja, we already have mamool ja and a two-headed mamool ja in Wanderer's Palace (Hard), its really not a big deal that they use a name of all things again. Should we start complaining about that they use morbols from FF2, Goblins from FF1, so on and so forth? Every FF uses monsters, and names from previous games, thats not something unique to FFXIV.

The reason the current patch's story is so bad, is because it really is a retelling. The moment Golbez was shown armor and all, you knew it was going to go. The Four Fiends, Shadow Dragon, maybe even Zeromus, just from seeing him. More importantly, that he would be redeemed.

[Atelier-Bagur]

We are talking about MSQ, not side quests/stories/content. About Gulool Ja Ja, we already have mamool ja and a two-headed mamool ja in Wanderer's Palace (Hard), its really not a big deal that they use a name of all things again. Should we start complaining about that they use morbols from FF2, Goblins from FF1, so on and so forth? Every FF uses monsters, and names from previous games, thats not something unique to FFXIV.

The reason the current patch's story is so bad, is because it really is a retelling. The moment Golbez was shown armor and all, you knew it was going to go. The Four Fiends, Shadow Dragon, maybe even Zeromus, just from seeing him. More importantly, that he would be redeemed.

Yeah I remember that classic FFIV scene where Tellah managed to talk through to Golbez rather than him being mind controlled by Zeromus and then getting killed for it.

Or who could ever forget that 2nd half arc in FFIV, where Cecil was BFFs with Golbez the whole time and he was actually also a knight of Baron that tried to save their home from invading crystal juiced warriors.

Ahh.. good times.

The only predictable thing was us fighting the Four Fiends and that Golbez was a good guy. Everything else was fair game to be reimagined or altered to fit into FFXIV's world which was the entire point of them making these callbacks just like how theyve done it with the rest of the game.

Games been unoriginal from the start. Quit pretending that most of the arcs were all completely brand new with no use heavy use of old FF callbacks.

[KenZentra]

Quit pretending that most of the arcs were all completely brand new with no use heavy use of old FF callbacks.

Like what from the MSQ?

[Vyrerus]

Like what from the MSQ?

Pirates in Sastasha = Pirates in Pravoka from FF1 we just don't get a ship out of it. FF1 callback achieved!

Tam Tara Deepcroft = Marsh Cave equivalent (final boss is even a Soulflayer), helping elves in the forest... FF1 callback achieved!

Ifrit through Shiva = Ye Olde Eidolon fight callbacks. FFV callback achieved! (and many such cases through other entries as well)

Garuda exists = FF3 callback achieved!

Crystal Tower, however retroactively added to the MSQ is still the MSQ, FF3 callback achieved!

The OG races before Au Ra, Hrothgar, and Viera = races lifted directly from XI. FFXI callback achieved!

Story specifics wise in the long haul: The Ascians are analogous to the Zilart from FFXI in the overarching brush strokes and plot direction. A goddess split The Crystal so that she and Promathia could give birth to mortalkind, so that Promathia could achieve his own death. The Zilart were once godlike and lived in paradise, and the mothercrystals granted their prince a vision, which he shared telepathically with all other Zilart, excluding their fellow Kuluu who lost that ability but were still people. If they achieved paradise, it would destroy the now imperfect Vana'diel, so the Kuluu rebelled and fought them, irradiating the planet with a magical crystal line meltdown. The Kuluu were mutated into Tonberries, and the Zilart who survived did so in stasis slumber for 10000 years, re-emerging by the events of the game to continue their rejoin the crystals to achieve Paradise plan. Sound familiar?

The smaller storylines do have more originality, the journey to how we connect the dots of this overarching long haul, but I could go on listing callbacks and plot referentials all throughout every expansion. I just don't have the time.

[Nebelheim]

Pirates in Sastasha = Pirates in Pravoka from FF1 we just don't get a ship out of it. FF1 callback achieved!

Tam Tara Deepcroft = Marsh Cave equivalent (final boss is even a Soulflayer), helping elves in the forest... FF1 callback achieved!

Ifrit through Shiva = Ye Olde Eidolon fight callbacks. FFV callback achieved! (and many such cases through other entries as well)

Garuda exists = FF3 callback achieved!

Crystal Tower, however retroactively added to the MSQ is still the MSQ, FF3 callback achieved!

The OG races before Au Ra, Hrothgar, and Viera = races lifted directly from XI. FFXI callback achieved!

Story specifics wise in the long haul: The Ascians are analogous to the Zilart from FFXI in the overarching brush strokes and plot direction. A goddess split The Crystal so that she and Promathia could give birth to mortalkind, so that Promathia could achieve his own death. The Zilart were once godlike and lived in paradise, and the mothercrystals granted their prince a vision, which he shared telepathically with all other Zilart, excluding their fellow Kuluu who lost that ability but were still people. If they achieved paradise, it would destroy the now imperfect Vana'diel, so the Kuluu rebelled and fought them, irradiating the planet with a magical crystal line meltdown. The Kuluu were mutated into Tonberries, and the Zilart who survived did so in stasis slumber for 10000 years, re-emerging by the events of the game to continue their rejoin the crystals to achieve Paradise plan. Sound familiar?

The smaller storylines do have more originality, the journey to how we connect the dots of this overarching long haul, but I could go on listing callbacks and plot referentials all throughout every expansion. I just don't have the time.

They will probably most likely still deny ff14 directly rips from other ff games and ask you to provide more evidence only to keep denying ff14 doesn't reuse story/ideas/themes from the other games in the main story. People seem to think ripping story/themes from other ff games and changing them slightly to fit ff14 somehow makes it a cool new unique enough idea that it somehow makes it not a rip from the game there ripping the ideas from

[MikkoAkure]

Like what from the MSQ?

The Garleans borrow HEAVILY from FF2, FF6, FF7, and FF12 to the point where you need to be blind or ignorant of the FF series as a whole to not notice. They reuse magitek models from FF6 and armor from FF12 and the only things original at all about the Garleans were assets introduced in 1.0. Almost everything relating to the plot that involves Garleans were already done similarly with evil empires/corporations in other FF games if they didn't just shamelessly rip them out from other games completely with a wink and a nod. Emet-Selch's personality and even his theme song hit really close to Ardyn from FF15.

Stormblood takes a lot of its plot points and even whole locations from FF6.

Then there's the whole thing about the entire story being kicked off by a character named Venat who comes from a race of higher beings and joins forces with the lower beings against her own people in order to change the status quo.

[Boblawblah]

The Garleans borrow HEAVILY from FF2, FF6, FF7, and FF12 to the point where you need to be blind or ignorant of the FF series as a whole to not notice. They reuse magitek models from FF6 and armor from FF12 and the only things original at all about the Garleans were assets introduced in 1.0. Almost everything relating to the plot that involves Garleans were already done similarly with evil empires/corporations in other FF games if they didn't just shamelessly rip them out from other games completely with a wink and a nod. Emet-Selch's personality and even his theme song hit really close to Ardyn from FF15.

Stormblood takes a lot of its plot points and even whole locations from FF6.

Then there's the whole thing about the entire story being kicked off by a character named Venat who comes from a race of higher beings and joins forces with the lower beings against her own people in order to change the status quo.

Can you show me what Final Fantasy game a group called the Garleans who are secretly created by another group called the Ascians is in?

Also, could you show me the Final Fantasy game where a villain by the name of Golbez has world domination plans and then is shown to be a fakeout for the real boss named Zeromus and Golbez is actually just a misunderstood good guy?

[Nebelheim]

Can you show me what Final Fantasy game a group called the Garleans who are secretly created by another group called the Ascians is in?

Also, could you show me the Final Fantasy game where a villain by the name of Golbez has world domination plans and then is shown to be a fakeout for the real boss named Zeromus and Golbez is actually just a misunderstood good guy?

The whole golbez arc is directly ripped from ff4 and he was a good guy in the sequel to ff4 but was a puppet to zeromus the entire game and fulfilling zeromus plans. The garleans are a reference to the gestalt/archadian empire from ff6 and 12 down to zenos essentially being just like kefka except zenos didn't become a god. The archadian empire if i remember was controlled by venat or some of the other higher beings which are similar in ff14.