How would you solve the boring "damage rotation" of the healers?

[SargeTheSeagull]

So instead of actually discussing your ideas about healers on this forum about healers, you'd rather write a dissertation about how exaggeration is hard to understand (lmao) and how people in a totally unrelated thread on a different website almost sound like they sorta agree with you when answering a largely unrelated question. Good to know.
I agree with Dusty. Healers are magic users and straight up combos, even if they share a button, would just feel wrong. Plus if they shared a button it wouldn't do anything to address the issue. Procs or even just more interactions would probably be a better fit. Like Glare has a X% chance to increase the damage of your next Holy to 500 potency. Or every three casts of dosis grants a use of phlegma. Or every card you deal triples the potency of combust but reduces its duration. Stuff like that.

And though in principal i'm not against stricter healing requirements, it largely wouldn't work in 14. Not because healers in this game have Stockholm syndrome (whatever the hell that's supposed to mean on this topic), but because this game's netcode is so bad that reactive healing literally doesn't work. Plus that would quickly devolve into spamming medica instead of glare which isn't an improvement. And yes, it would be too hard for the sylphies and turbocasuals who would just ragequit. And the core of the issue isn't "i dont want to heal, lemme do damage" the issue at its core is "nothing in our kits is actually interactive so regardless of any increase in healing requirements we'd still be pressing buttons that just restore HP, restore HP over time, apply a shield, or increase defense". Plus the only thing the devs would realistically be creative with is how healers do damage because that wouldn't impact the skill floor of actually healing. Frankly i think that's a bigger problem than anything else. There's no ability that applies kardia to multiple people. There's no CD that averages out the HP of everyone in an area. There's no ability that duplicates your next healing ability on anyone with a certain buff. There's no ability that causes people to heal themselves when they attack an enemy you've debuffed. There's no heal that regens HP and jumps to someone else when they're topped off. There's no ability that buffs someone's defense and damages anyone who attacks them. The most creative healing skill in the game rn is probably macrocosmos but even that's on a 2 or 3 minute CD (plus its level 90) so you barely use it.

[Saraide]

I wouldn't increase the damage rotation for healers; I would massively boost unavoidable damage and give them healing to do.

But healers in this MMO have Stockholm Syndrome and the devs completely disrespect the role, so I've moved over to PewPew.

Please tell us by how much you think raidwide damage would have to increase to achieve this in all levels of combat.

[Renathras]

That's a whole lot of text to just say "I suck at identifying hyperbole".

Heckling, got it. Will ignore for the moment.

If you are wanting healers to have something to do, but it not be damage necessarily:...

The first one sounds good, actually. Plenty of people seem to agree that the oGCD arms race has painted us into a corner and oGCDs need to be either toned down or removed to push healing focus more on GCDs and MP management as well as spot healing.

Ultimately, one of the big issues is FFXIV's combat design is very rigid. So something like a permanently maintained damage down on the target/boss doesn't tend to work well. Protect was basically that and was removed. Makes balance weird when you don't have that healer in your comp and stuff. I'm not really sure the answer there other than FFXIV really needs a refresh to encounter design before anything else will matter. Break out of "the dance".

Ah yes, my sole reason for joining the forums a year ago was to make you look bad.

A thing I've never said. So more heckling. Moving on.

I like the idea of increasing mana consumption. One thing they could add with that is a DPS ability that costs no mana but does little damage (kinda like how wands work in WOW). That way even if you're oom you can still do something. Then you could have the sweaty parsers do like full burst and burn through all their mana to then regen it for the next burst window.

Honestly, this is how I described Glare in the prior post about damage neutral heals and why you'd pick Glare over simply casting Cure on 100% health targets. Wanding aside, I think it was around Cata that some healers got this. Resto Druid's Wrath was made to cost 0 mana so that if you were in downtime, no healing was needed, you had all the HoTs refreshed you needed, you could cast Wrath without it harming your mana pool, which was what discouraged healer DPSing prior to that. Cata was also the expansion they whacked all healers with the weakness stick that made their heals not work but forgot to tell the encounter designers they needed to design for weaker heals, which led to a ton of healer burnout and players quitting the game, especially in the infamous 4.1 "Troll dungeon" patch, where it was PARTICULARLY bad, as I recall.

Regardless, they did have some good ideas that expansion, and that was one of them that I've always appreciated and supported in these kinds of discussions in other games. Healer base spam nuke costing no MP means using it doesn't cripple your healing capability while also allowing kits to be designed around healing by juggling a limited resource of the MP pool.

I wouldn't increase the damage rotation for healers; I would massively boost unavoidable damage and give them healing to do.

But healers in this MMO have Stockholm Syndrome and the devs completely disrespect the role, so I've moved over to PewPew.

Fair, and for what it's worth, I and many others agree with you. More healing to do is always better. Our kits are FILLED with so many healing tools that we just never have any reason to use. And the "novice healers can't cut it!" argument doesn't apply; GCD spamming will still be viable in casual content, and the whole argument about forcing healer DPS rotations is premised around good players being able to differentiate themselves, so there we go.

EDIT:

A healer only needs about 4 or 5 spells in single target to make something regularly engaging, and an oGCD or two that interacts with those 4-5 spells. The only healer that should have a 1-2-3 combo is one that takes a page out of RDM's book and has an occasional melee phase (Sage could be this with Phlegma, but I'd rather a potential 5th one do this).

Honestly, given SGE's lasers, one suggestion I've seen before that I liked myself was making it like MCH where it has a 1-2-3 combo but they're instant cast pew pews. Just use the Dosis 1, 2, 3 animations already in the game for the attack animations for them.

I don't think debuffs to maintain works because of what I said before about encounter balance. Not to mention something else to upkeep is annoying. I hate DoTs and upkeep buffs myself. It's why when I DON'T play a healer, the other Jobs I tend to play are PLD (no upkeep buff, no real DoT to speak of as Circle is a "use on CD" oGCD ability - not to mention, as I've said before, it has some healer-like gameplay due to its utility stuff [Clemency aside] giving it reason to pay attention to party needs and make situational decisions) and SMN (no DoTs at all, no upkeep buffs at all, of all the DPS rotations in the game, it's the least.......that) and honorable mention to GNB (more involved rotation, but neither upkeep buff nor DoT other than Sonic Blade, which is just a use on CD GCD like Goring Blade). The fact I hate DPS rotations aside, at least those ones aren't obnoxious. It doesn't help the game's native UI does a terrible job of showing DoTs and SOME upkeep buffs (why WAR's is a tiny little icon in the far corner of my screen while NIN's is a massive pinwheel on top of the Job Gauge I will never understand...)

I think it'd be good to have 1-2 healers like you suggest, though.

Not all of them, but a couple.

So instead of actually discussing your ideas about healers on this forum about healers, you'd rather write a dissertation about how exaggeration is hard to understand

No, that's on you. I'm absolutely up for - and trying to - discuss healer ideas...unlike you trying to continue a conversation about hyperbole that no one else asked for. But you engaged in hyperbole then derailed the thread trying to make it the issue/topic instead of just saying "My bad, I can see we have a misunderstanding. Let me clearly lay out what I mean by 'no effort'".

But since you won't do that, let me ask the question:

What DO you mean by "no effort"?

Take current healers, as they all are basically the same. Current DPS gameplay is "Refresh DoT on time every 30 sec, use on CD some side abilities to prevent overcapping (Assize, Earthly Star, Plegma), use big damage abilities during the 2 min burst as applicable (Presence of Mind and Misery, Chain Strategem with Dissipation for 3 min burst and Energy Drains of course, Lord if you have it plus Card juggling plus Divination lining up an Earthly Star if possible, Plegma x2), and some prep work in downtime to contribute to bursts (Lilies and 1 Misery use at the 1 min to 1 min 20 sec mark, Aetherflow and using non-AF oGCD heals when possible to safe AF for EDs during burst making sure not to overcap AF,...SGE is really lacking here, lol)"

That doesn't seem like "no effort" to me, but it must to you to believe that people doing that after any proposed changes would be putting in "no effort".

So please describe to me what "no effort" is to you so we can be on the same page?

[SargeTheSeagull]

So anyone who calls you out on how you clearly don't want to discuss anything without throwing a shitfit on how you clearly don't know what you're talking about is a heckler? Ok. Let me heckle more. "No effort" is exactly how I'd describe current healers. You refresh a 30 second dot, spam glare/malefic/dosis/broil, and press anything as soon as it's off CD. On sage you make sure you have two charges of phlegma for a burst window (which requires pressing fewer buttons and provides so little of a boost that it's arguably not worth it). On WHM you can save a misery for a burst window, again, pressing fewer buttons. On SCH you can save your ED's for a burst window. None of these are remotely difficult or engaging at all. You literally just press every button the instant it comes off cooldown or if you really want to chase that sweet gold parse, just wait for a burst window. You make it sound like an utterly herculean task but it literally requires pressing a single button as soon as it comes up. What part of that is remotely difficult or engaging?

[ty_taurus]

The shear lack of creativity people have when suggesting a 1-2-3 combo to "fix" the problem for the healers, who are a Discipline of Magic--a larger role that has never featured 1-2-3 combos, makes me feel disappointed in being a human.

[Mimilu]

The shear lack of creativity people have when suggesting a 1-2-3 combo to "fix" the problem for the healers, who are a Discipline of Magic--a larger role that has never featured 1-2-3 combos, makes me feel disappointed in being a human.

And it was at this moment that Ty discovered that they're an otherkin or transhuman. Or a furry. I won't judge. (*´꒳`*) ~♥

[ty_taurus]

And it was at this moment that Ty discovered that they're an otherkin or transhuman. Or a furry. I won't judge. (*´꒳`*) ~♥

I was going to play into it for a joke, but didn't really know how. So I google searched "What's a furry thing to say?" And got a website called Furry Talk Translator where it has a google translate style web translator that, by default, translates the sentence "I can't wait to eat this cheese!" into "I can't wait to vore dis sergal uwu owo!" And I just needed to share that because no amount of time I could spend thinking of a funny response would surpass that.

[Renathras]

So anyone who calls you out on how you clearly don't want to discuss anything without throwing a shitfit on how you clearly don't know what you're talking about is a heckler?

No.

But moving on from that stupidity:

So tracking something you have to upkeep, managing resources to prevent overcapping, and aligning actions for burst windows is "no effort"?

What would be "effort", then? Is PLD or WAR's rotation "effort"? Or SMN's? Most of the Jobs in the game currently are...that. Managing some kind of upkeep thing, preventing overcapping resources (often by using them on CD or, for charged things, holding them for burst), and aligning their non-filler abilities into burst windows.

[EDIT: Oh, in case it's giving such an impression - this isn't meant as a critique. I'm just curious what WOULD be considered effort in your mind since...as far as I can tell, most Jobs in the game follow that same pattern Healers do, just with more buttons.]

The shear lack of creativity people have when suggesting a 1-2-3 combo to "fix" the problem for the healers, who are a Discipline of Magic--a larger role that has never featured 1-2-3 combos, makes me feel disappointed in being a human.

To be fair, the Ranged Phys role didn't have a 1-2-3 combo until MCH. And it's no less creative than "add another DoT, just an AOE one this time" or "add another DoT, just with a cast time and with a spread mechanic".

And it was at this moment that Ty discovered that they're an otherkin or transhuman. Or a furry. I won't judge. (*´꒳`*) ~♥

<_<
^_^

I was going to play into it for a joke, but didn't really know how. So I google searched "What's a furry thing to say?" And got a website called Furry Talk Translator where it has a google translate style web translator that, by default, translates the sentence "I can't wait to eat this cheese!" into "I can't wait to vore dis sergal uwu owo!" And I just needed to share that because no amount of time I could spend thinking of a funny response would surpass that.

O_O

[Saraide]

Yes, compared to glare spam, warrior's rotation is more effort. This question can not be genuine lmao.

[SweetPete]

Dang you guys went in on me hard. Sheesh it was just a suggestion. Wow you guys can get really mean here. It’s cool if it’s not something you want but I thought forums was just a place where you can express yourself positively and not incur just a rash of exasperated people.

It was just an idea… just like allot of people have. It’s not a right or wrong answer. Didn’t have to be so discourteous and impolite.