How would you solve the boring "damage rotation" of the healers?

[Renathras]

So, this "most liked" comment...

Sorry, tried to answer you asking this in the healer forum but it didn't post. Here:

1) Didn't say anyone was.

2) A common refrain here - which some posters there said as well - is "We can't increase healing complexity, because then we'd have to change every encounter in the game and/or casual healers couldn't clear any content (despite talking about Extremes/Savages, not casual content)". Those are arguments people HAVE used here before.

3) Regardless, that isn't the point. The POINT is that there are other people that oppose giving healers tank-level rotations, something people here were asking for and insisting I was alone in opposing.

4) Note that a number of the posts, including the most liked ones, aren't just on about the "don't reduce healing complexity". People replying there ARE outright saying they don't want an increase in dps complexity at all - whether or not healer complexity is touched. That's the point. My view isn't isolated. We don't even have to go there, as 3-4 other people have posted in this thread agreeing on that point/opposing the majority wanting more DPS actions. But taken here and there, it's clear that there is a non-negligible portion of the healer playerbase that DOES NOT want more dps actions/complexity on their healers.

More than enough to sustain the argument that at least one healer Job should be spared from such changes.

5) Also, because someone posted a picture of what SCH would look like if it had DPS Faeries:

Edit: Actually I'll add this bit for you. Do you even realize that half the things you reply to are hyperbole and you treat it as literally? When people say "everyone" or "no one", that's hyperbole.
Just look at your last reply to Sarge

Poe's Law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law

"Poe's law is an adage of internet culture which says that, without a clear indicator of the author's intent, any parodic or sarcastic expression of extreme views can be mistaken by some readers for a sincere expression of those views.[1][2][3] The law is frequently exploited by individuals who share genuine extremist views and, when faced with overwhelming criticism, deflect by insisting they were merely being satirical. "

Short version:

In text, people cannot tell for sure if you are being sarcastic or hyperbolic unless you denote you are in some way.

At its worst, people actually DO believe what they say, but when called on it, deflect to "I was just being sarcastic/exaggerating", but even at its best, when people have no bad intentions, it leads to confusion when people read what they TYPED OUT and respond to that. People are not mind readers, so it's not right to expect they can tell when you're being overly sarcastic unless you have some kind of marker indicating sarcasm, or are so over the top that it's extremely obvious (though if someone doesn't see it then, you should recognize that's still on you and use your next post to say "Sorry I didn't make it clear enough, that as sarcasm. What I really mean is..."

If you are talking to friends/people who agree with you, this tends to happen less, but if you are talking to people that you don't have a rapport with or whom you disagree with, it tends not to register as what it is. How many times have I been accused of saying I speak for the majority when I outright say I only speak for 15-30%? I'm not only NOT exaggerating, I'm quantifying my position to a limited amount, and people STILL exaggerate 15-30% into "a majority". So if I take that level of pains and people insist I'm being hyperbolic, how much more should you guys constrain your own statements to not be interpreted as overinflating?

What makes me think it's in bad faith is when people say something sarcastic/exaggerated/hyperbolic, I respond to it, then they mock/attack me for responding to it, which seems a lot like entrapment. "Haha, I'm going to say EVERYONE thinks a thing, then when you contest that not everyone does, I can attack you for being stupid and not seeing obvious sarcasm! Got 'em!" If it's genuinely in good faith, the response is more like what I say when people say I was being hyperbolic, either a "It's not hyperbolic, I actually do mean it, and here's why..." or "Yeah, I probably didn't use the right word. Let me clarify what I mean..."

That would be the correct response to misunderstanding.

IDEALLY, people can just tamp down on the hyperbole. In lieu of that, clearly mark when you're being hyperbolic. In lieu of THAT, if someone misunderstands you and responds thinking you were serious, instead of using it as an opportunity to attack them, use it as an opportunity for an olive branch with a "Sorry, I was being over the top. Let me explain what I actually mean..." since that would actually lead to...well, understanding and potentially even mutual respect.

Which is better than what we have going here right now.

EDIT:

It's a parody of hardcore raiders being blamed for random things.

Much the same as Sylphies.

It's a tongue in cheek bit of self depreciation to try and add a bit of humour to the post. Nothing more, nothing less sir.

Ah.

Forgive me, someone just earlier in the thread said I was calling raiders "awful" and "terrible" and DIDN'T mean it tongue-in-cheek, and another someone invented the words of me calling everyone stupid out of thin aire to also attack me with, and there are many people in these discussions that have a history of using Sylphies literally, not as an exaggeration, and insisting they exist and are somewhat common. Hence my confusion.

Regardless, my apologies for thinking you might be doing the same. Sorry for the mistake on my part, ma'am.

[CidHeiral]

[ReynTime]

Blocking Renathras was the best thing I've done in this forum. Highly recommend.

[Thurmnmurmn]

snip

That's a whole lot of text to just say "I suck at identifying hyperbole".

The fact you think everyone (this is hyperbole) is only doing it to get you to respond is hilarious. Feeds into the whole narrative of you playing the victim and everyone is baiting you (this is also hyperbole).
You preached for people to not engage in hyperbole yet you do it all the time. That's why people mock your responses.
And also because it's so obviously an exaggeration.

[KenZentra]

If you are wanting healers to have something to do, but it not be damage necessarily:
Reduce the potency of AoE Heals and have them cost much more MP and/or have them nott effect all players, such as the 4 lowest hp players.
Remove most oGCD Heals, or put them on very long CDs.

This is to promote using single target heals to keep up the heals rather than 2-3 AoEs to bring players from 0 to 100% hp. The simple DPS rotation is still simple as you will be spending most of your time healing each player and you be spending much less gcds for your dot and single-target attack.




If you are wanting healers to have a more complex DPS rotation only:
Add a random proc to the single non-dot spell to use a different spell. For instance:
"Glare 1 and proc the ability "Burning Light". It deals more damage than Glare, has a short DoT and/or refreshes/extends the duration of Dia."
Dealing damage reduces the cooldown of a heavier hitting spell that has a cooldown.
Your DoT has a chance when it deals damage to let you apply a different, but shorter and stronger DoT.
Casting <Insert Offensive Spell Here> ramps up damage from kinda low dps, to higher DPS the more you cast it.

You really can do anything with these the DPS part of a healer and have it have even just a small more degree of depth, or even have it loop back into healing a bit by increasing the potency of a healing spell in some way when you deal damage.


Overlapping Ideas:
A CD that makes your shields deal damage to enemies when they are completely consumed.
Your spamming DPS Spell reduces the damage of the target by a flat damage amount and can stack to a maximum set amount.
Kardia being set (maybe as a CD) to heal everyone or heal whoever has the lowest HP in the party, for set a time.
A abilitiy that changes some WHM spells to deal damage instead. Some examples are like Asylum becoming a huge AoE DoT on the ground or Cure 3 being a large nuke. This effect would probably would have a CD.
A trait that, when you Heal you progressively heal less and less each cast, but increase your damage. This would also reduce the MP cost, and increase the recast time for healing spells.

I know these ideas are not perfect, and they might not work the way I'd hope in reality. However, I dont think it makes sense either that we are several expansions into FFXIV and there is not really any innovative ideas in the case of healing. I don't mind something simple, but every healer is you either heal, or you deal damage and there isnt really much overlap in those ideas, aside from a few that are just tacked on to a class., such as Kardia, Earthly Star and Macrocosmos.

[ForsakenRoe]

I already corrected you on that in another thread yet you lie about it a second time here? Whatever, heckling. Moving on.

Roe left all that out because that would make me seem reasonable and sensible, and she wants everyone to see me as wrong and absurd. In other words, she lied so people would like her posts attacking me.

Roe left that part out because it would completely defeat her objective, which is to make me look bad, not to have good faith discussion.

Ah yes, my sole reason for joining the forums a year ago was to make you look bad. And the only reason I stay here is because I get likes and validation from strangers, people who I have no idea who they are, what they do. Get over yourself man, I don't do this to make you look bad. I could say you're heckling me, even now, by painting such a poor image of my character

And I'm sure it couldn't have slipped past someone as astute as yourself, but the reason I 'lied' about it a second time here, might just have been because I posted the 'lie' here, and THEN saw that other thread? Occam's Razor and all that

[Thurmnmurmn]

I like the idea of increasing mana consumption. One thing they could add with that is a DPS ability that costs no mana but does little damage (kinda like how wands work in WOW). That way even if you're oom you can still do something. Then you could have the sweaty parsers do like full burst and burn through all their mana to then regen it for the next burst window.

Would add a ton of options for how much a healer is able to DPS and still be able to heal when needed (which would vary depending on how good the team is)

This is additional on top of other suggestions some had for DPS rotation.

[HappyHubris]

I wouldn't increase the damage rotation for healers; I would massively boost unavoidable damage and give them healing to do.

But healers in this MMO have Stockholm Syndrome and the devs completely disrespect the role, so I've moved over to PewPew.

[SweetPete]

Maybe a combo system will work for healers. Like say whm. Cast glare then the button changes to the second combo called glare down (okay don’t laugh at my spell names lol) and with an increased potency then a finisher with increased potency. So yeah pressing the same button but different spells. Also casting a heal in between will reset the combo. So it brings back the decision making as well. Finish your combo or cast the heal off.

I mean they don’t have to be same button. Can be 3 different buttons too. Can free up some buttons anyway like make cure 1 upgrade to cure 2 etc.

[TheDustyOne]

I'd rather avoid any 1-2-3 combo, it's better to look at casters for inspiration rather than tanks and melees. If I want more DPS options on healers, I'd rather have:

Gauges to build and spend (stacks or a 0-100 gauge, as long as I can build > spend)
Procs
Extra cooldowns
Extra debuffs to maintain (alongside the DoT)
Buffs to upkeep
Interactivity between all these (A proc reduces a cooldown by 5s, the debuff gives bonus gauge for keeping it up, the buff unlocks another spell, etc.)

A healer only needs about 4 or 5 spells in single target to make something regularly engaging, and an oGCD or two that interacts with those 4-5 spells. The only healer that should have a 1-2-3 combo is one that takes a page out of RDM's book and has an occasional melee phase (Sage could be this with Phlegma, but I'd rather a potential 5th one do this).