Dawntrail Healers need a rework

[Aria1]

I’ve only had a static for exactly 1 raid tier, P4-8. I’ve never had a static at all in any raid tier prior. You know what they say about assumptions.

A dead horse that has been completely atomized in these forums has been how changes can work to make healers easier for casuals by removing more punishing aspects, like how Roe and I have suggested making basic spammable heals cost 0 mp. Or how taking damage out of your filler and into your other, restrictive tools like a DoT or cooldowns makes every GCD spent on healing less of a DPS loss since the pressure to use every GCD on DPS decreases, something that has currently never been higher. But go off on how we want to crush the casuals, person who knows less about the healer role than I know about ancient Sanskrit.

I just love people who think if one person isn’t responsible enough to play with the plastic knives responsibly, that no one can. Please continue to police my ability to enjoy FFXIV, I know you don’t believe I deserve to enjoy the game, because then there’s a chance you might die in a dungeon because some casual healer won’t be able to optimize their DPS output as much, and will cause you to hit the invisible enrage. My fun is not deserved.

The second part of my reply after the - wasn't aimed at you, but to the other poster that talked about healer skill ceilings and I was too lazy to search for it again through the pages to quote.
However, the answer to your conumdrum is that the world doesn't revolve around you, as shocking as it might sound. Just because you don't like how it is currently, doesn't mean the game needs to change a whole system for, specifically, yours truly. I don't even know how you can think that's a good argument and not a self entitlement fantasy.

[ty_taurus]

The second part of my reply after the - wasn't aimed at you, but to the other poster that talked about healer skill ceilings and I was too lazy to search for it again through the pages to quote.
However, the answer to your conumdrum is that the world doesn't revolve around you, as shocking as it might sound. Just because you don't like how it is currently, doesn't mean the game needs to change a whole system for, specifically, yours truly. I don't even know how you can think that's a good argument and not a self entitlement fantasy.

Self-entitlement fantasy is "I want healers to be as simple as possible so there's less of a chance that some noob is going to waste my time in DFs and PFs, and I don't care how many players lose their favorite role or playstyle as long as I get what I want."

[Aria1]

Self-entitlement fantasy is "I want healers to be as simple as possible so there's less of a chance that some noob is going to waste my time in DFs and PFs, and I don't care how many players lose their favorite role or playstyle as long as I get what I want."

That's kinda funny, because it's not at all what I'm saying, but it is exactly what you are saying but in another perspective. It's like admitting to it, I guess.
Contrary to what you said, I don't "want" anything, because that's how it already is. I find BLM very annoying to play, yet, even if I may like mages, magic circles, and big explosions, I wouldn't ask for a revamp of the class (let alone the whole magic dps spectrum) because I wasn't having fun playing it, that's just silly.

[ty_taurus]

That's kinda funny, because it's not at all what I'm saying, but it is exactly what you are saying but in another perspective. It's like admitting to it, I guess.
Contrary to what you said, I don't "want" anything, because that's how it already is. I find BLM very annoying to play, yet, even if I may like mages, magic circles, and big explosions, I wouldn't ask for a revamp of the class (let alone the whole magic dps spectrum) because I wasn't having fun playing it, that's just silly.

Yes, me wanting sage to live up to the playstyle it was described as having by Yoshi P himself is exactly the same as someone who thinks if healers get 2-3 new attacks is going to make it exponentially harder for parties to clear anything because most healers are going to start just failing completely I guess.

Have fun with the Dragoon rework.

[Aria1]

Yes, me wanting sage to live up to the playstyle it was described as having by Yoshi P himself is exactly the same as someone who thinks if healers get 2-3 new attacks is going to make it exponentially harder for parties to clear anything because most healers are going to start just failing completely I guess.

Have fun with the Dragoon rework.

I will, thanks!
And if I don't, I'll just switch to some other class I like playing.
Also, wanting SGE to be the DPSy healer is a fair request, that's how they were advertised at first before ending as scholar 2.0 after all. However, OP is calling for changes to the healing spectrum in itself and not just to this class, and you pushed for it with that terrible reasoning, which was the main thing that drove me to post.

So, while I see that your last line is somewhat reasonable, don't you consider it to be somewhat selfish yourself to think that that you're blocking changes to jobs on the potential that some people just might make a mistake? or not want to know how to play their job? It already happens with other jobs- I'm thinking of tanks, specifically, that don't use their mitigation, or cleave the party, - and that doesn't affect their job design. Why the double standard?

Not to mention- you're talking about "filtering people"- they have 90 levels to learn. That's not filtering by that point.

That depends on a particular point, which is: Why are these changes being called?
The majority of the replies and reasoning given is that it is "because it's boring", or "because I don't have fun playing it" or "I want more button to press on downtime!". That means this is being called because of some whim of certain people. It's not a balancing issue, it's not a mechanical issue, the healers, as it is, have no intrinsic issue to justify reworking the whole healing class spectrum. If you were the game lead, would you risk applying changes like this that would affect the entirety of the player population because of such frivolous reasons of a few people?
That said, I also don't understand the reasoning behind AST and DRG rework, but if the dev team thought it was due there's probably a good reason behind it besides "it's boring".

[IDontPetLalas]

I will, thanks!
And if I don't, I'll just switch to some other class I like playing.
Also, wanting SGE to be the DPSy healer is a fair request, that's how they were advertised at first before ending as scholar 2.0 after all. However, OP is calling for changes to the healing spectrum in itself and not just to this class, and you pushed for it with that terrible reasoning, which was the main thing that drove me to post.



That depends on a particular point, which is: Why are these changes being called?
The majority of the replies and reasoning given is that it is "because it's boring", or "because I don't have fun playing it" or "I want more button to press on downtime!". That means this is being called because of some whim of certain people. It's not a balancing issue, it's not a mechanical issue, the healers, as it is, have no intrinsic issue to justify reworking the whole healing class spectrum. If you were the game lead, would you risk applying changes like this that would affect the entirety of the player population because of such frivolous reasons of a few people?
That said, I also don't understand the reasoning behind AST and DRG rework, but if the dev team thought it was due there's probably a good reason behind it besides "it's boring".

"The majority of the replies and reasoning given is that it is "because it's boring", or "because I don't have fun playing it" or "I want more button to press on downtime!". That means this is being called because of some whim of certain people. It's not a balancing issue, it's not a mechanical issue, the healers, as it is, have no intrinsic issue to justify reworking the whole healing class spectrum. If you were the game lead, would you risk applying changes like this that would affect the entirety of the player population because of such frivolous reasons of a few people?"

So, let's take another example. Let's say that you were a car manufacturer. You could make a Prius, or a Yaris, or an Echo. They get the job done, right? They get you where you want to go, they're quite reliable as well - but exciting? Not for me, nor for millions of other car drivers- but there's quite a few people that have bought them.

So this is why any job deserves and should be re-examined when people rightfully provide their feedback, saying that it isn't fun. No one should dismiss or demean them by stating that their opinions are "frivolous' or that certain people have "whims", unless you have some secret knowledge as to their reasoning (which I seriously doubt) their motivations are as deserving as anyone else, to believe otherwise is extremely divisive not to mention presumptuous.

[Aria1]

So this is why any job deserves and should be re-examined when people rightfully provide their feedback, saying that it isn't fun. No one should dismiss or demean them by stating that their opinions are "frivolous' or that certain people have "whims", unless you have some secret knowledge as to their reasoning (which I seriously doubt) their motivations are as deserving as anyone else, to believe otherwise is extremely divisive not to mention presumptuous.

I see your point, but I'm still not able to completely agree, and I think that's fine.
Using your example, let's say that 75% of your clients did find it exciting, then what? How would you justify changing it, if your main clients do have fun driving them around? If you change it, you might risk just going bankrupt. Of course that's not the case with FFXIV, but it shows my point of view, I guess. "Fun" and "Boring" are subjective concepts. For instance, in moba games people can lose a match and say "hey, we lost but I had fun!" while someone else was fuming because they have fun winning, and not losing. Some people I know, for instance, have fun mapping and pre-planning their big heal cds throughout a savage fight and executing it, and don't care as much about having to press only 2 DPS buttons (this doesn't mean I don't support healers doing dps, it's just an example of subjective fun), unlike the people on this thread, which clearly do care about and want more buttons to press.
So how would you go about it? Do you trample over what this part of the players want, or do you trample over that other part to implement the changes? It's a more complicated matter than I thought at first, I'll concede on that.
To me it still ends up being a matter of reasons given as I mentioned, and such subjective reasons can't be weighted properly, as something could be not fun for you but fun for someone else, boring for you and not boring for someone else.

But then again, this is FFXIV where apparently what we want is the world the Nibiruns created from Endwalker's story: a world so void of failure, friction, conflict, sadness, and anger that the joys and victories we experience are so empty and hollow that we literally pray for death to take us and free us from apathy. "Can someone please get hit by something so I have a reason to heal?"

I don't get where are you getting that this is what I'm saying. If that was what I wanted, I'd ask for SE to make Veraero and Verdark being unusable until the RDM used Jolt first (yes, gutting it on precast), since I've seen quite a few 90 RDMs hardcasting those throughout dungeons and trials. Also to remove Ice from BLMs so I don't see any more ice-only BLMs on later level roulettes. Stuff like that, but I really don't care about how long I take to clear a dungeon or trial, and I still don't know why do you think I do.

-

That'll be it for me. Good luck on your endeavors, thread.

[ty_taurus]

...and you pushed for it with that terrible reasoning, which was the main thing that drove me to post.

You're playing an online game where your victory is dependent on other people's performance. That is the nature of online games, and trying to railroad players into playing correctly by erasing every possible "wrong" answer is a horrible mentality that suffocates the gameplay experience. If you don't like the idea that you will lose some fights because of someone else's mistake, there are single player RPGs that have existed for decades where the only person responsible is yourself. I worded it crudely because I'm beyond fed up with this mentality that curbing gameplay to force other players to perform better by proxy so that we experience less failure is actually a good thing.

But then again, this is FFXIV where apparently what we want is the world the Nibiruns created from Endwalker's story: a world so void of failure, friction, conflict, sadness, and anger that the joys and victories we experience are so empty and hollow that we literally pray for death to take us and free us from apathy. "Can someone please get hit by something so I have a reason to heal?"

[Nizzi]

Posts like these just make me really happy they're gutting every DPS job and making them easier to play. I want every DPS job completely gutted and I want it now. I hope they do it to MNK and BLM next expansion too. I hate it when DPS players waste my time by not playing optimally, I don't care about their personal enjoyment of the game. I am the main character, only my fun matters. Every DPS job should be comparable to Summoner at max levels of optimization. My time is important, after all. I'm very excited for them to finally do it with Dragoon in Dawntrail! I can't wait for them to finally kill that terrible play style so the true Dragoons can finally play Dragoon.

[ty_taurus]

Posts like these just make me really happy they're gutting every DPS job and making them easier to play. I want every DPS job completely gutted and I want it now. I hope they do it to MNK and BLM next expansion too. I hate it when DPS players waste my time by not playing optimally, I don't care about their personal enjoyment of the game. I am the main character, only my fun matters. Every DPS job should be comparable to Summoner at max levels of optimization. My time is important, after all. I'm very excited for them to finally do it with Dragoon in Dawntrail! I can't wait for them to finally kill that terrible play style so the true Dragoons can finally play Dragoon.

That's a good point. Maybe if the DPS didn't have such complicated rotations, they wouldn't die so much in DF or PF. And that's the cardinal sin of FFXIV: being mildly inconvenient to someone else's video gaming experience. That just made me extremely excited to see this upcoming dragoon rework.