[Discussion and Feedback] Incoming damage vs. Utility

[Zairava]

It shouldn't, because as I said, the job of a tank is to protect the party. This is achieved primarily by drawing the attention of enemies, but also by reducing the incoming damage to the party, such as by using tank limit break, applying a single-target support buff to party members or to the party, or reducing the outgoing damage of the boss with something like Reprisal.

Meanwhile, a healer's job is to... heal.

That is...incredibly one-noted. Different styles of healers have already existed for near a couple decades now. Pure Healer, Shield Healer, etc. Even in basic RPG's healers generally have spells for protection (such as protect and shell, for example). If there was only one style the population of healers would already be much, MUCH smaller than it already is.

Tanks are already protecting the party by being the ones taking the brunt of the damage and have cooldowns to soften the blows, healers are already supporting the party to keep them alive it just makes more sense for them to be able to give party/raid-wide mitigation as well.

[Jeeqbit]

That is...incredibly one-noted. Different styles of healers have already existed for near a couple decades now. Pure Healer, Shield Healer, etc. Even in basic RPG's healers generally have spells for protection (such as protect and shell, for example). If there was only one style the population of healers would already be much, MUCH smaller than it already is.

It's not too much of a problem that healers can cast barriers because it's a team effort, but ultimately, a big part of what I enjoy about tanking is reducing the incoming damage to the party. I could not count the amount of times I have saved party members or entire parties from dying due to timely Reprisals and tank mitigations, which reduced the damage just enough to save them because they had vuln stacks or weren't topped off.

What makes it a problem is when a tank blames the healer for not mitigating always. In parties today that is common thing I see and yet I am thinking, you know, tanks play a big role in this too...

The tank mitigation was never an issue either, because we even had Divine Veil in Heavensward. The issue was in Endwalker when they added a regen effect to it, because now I randomly decide to do a healer's job for them and heal the whole party.

[Zairava]

It's not too much of a problem that healers can cast barriers because it's a team effort, but ultimately, a big part of what I enjoy about tanking is reducing the incoming damage to the party. I could not count the amount of times I have saved party members or entire parties from dying due to timely Reprisals and tank mitigations, which reduced the damage just enough to save them because they had vuln stacks or weren't topped off.

What makes it a problem is when a tank blames the healer for not mitigating always. In parties today that is common thing I see and yet I am thinking, you know, tanks play a big role in this too...

The tank mitigation was never an issue either, because we even had Divine Veil in Heavensward. The issue was in Endwalker when they added a regen effect to it, because now I randomly decide to do a healer's job for them and heal the whole party.

Like I said before, I don't think party mit needs to be necessarily removed from the tanks. I just think that the party mitigation as a whole needs to be dialed back a notch, because the only other solution to balance out normal mode content is to just make things hit harder to account for it, but that would mean balancing the damage to that extreme if we are to keep every ability that does it.

Now personally, I would like if they were to balance out to that extreme, but this is normal mode we're talking about.

I mean lets take a brief review of what we got this expansion(minus healers).

• Feint and Addle effect both types of damage, which means both can be applied for every aoe now. ([Physical/Magical:] 10%/5% and 5/10%, respectively)
• RDM got Magick Barrier (reduces damage by 10%, increases incoming healing by 5%)
• Warrior got Shake it Off buffed not once, but TWICE. (got healing, and then Regen on top of that)
• Paladin got a heal on top of Divine Veil

There's also (added before Endwalker but still exist today)

• Reprisal (10% mit)
• (PLD) Passage of Arms (15% mit), though this is a case by case basis if you aren't trying to snapshot
• Dark Missionary/Heart of Light (DRK/GNB| 10% Magic mit)

It's absolutely ridiculous how much we actually have at our disposal, what I listed doesn't even include what healers have at their disposal. While yes..it can indeed prevent players from dying if they have vuln stacks, the other end of "But if players don't have stacks" needs to be considered, because if you don't, even if you aren't geared it will barely even put a scratch on you, and with how infrequent raid-wides or heal checks happen just means player's will likely already have tools available for the next one.

[Jeeqbit]

I just think that the party mitigation as a whole needs to be dialed back a notch

I disagree. If the damage is being reduced due to everyone using their mitigations, then that is because everyone is doing their job.

But I doubt it is really that everyone is doing their job in casual content, because usually people in casual content are not very good at playing their job, so the problem is more likely that the outgoing damage is too low, especially when you are even slightly above the minimum item level.

Feint and Addle effect both types of damage, which means both can be applied for every aoe now. ([Physical/Magical:] 10%/5% and 5/10%, respectively)

I don't feel like DPS used to use these as much. It was only when it was more important for clearing high-end duties in Endwalker and they were made to mitigate both types of damage that the prevalence of using them increased a lot.

RDM got Magick Barrier (reduces damage by 10%, increases incoming healing by 5%)

Alright, but many DPS have this. Bard, Machinist, Dancers and Monks have some of these effects.

I agree that the ranged physical mitigation steps on the toes of tanks a bit as well, but it is also usually just 10% mitigation so it's only significant mitigation if everyone uses it ie. 2 tanks use theirs, 2 healers use theirs, a RDM uses it and a ranged physical uses it. And this is contingent on them all being skilled and competent enough to do so, which many players are not, so we don't exactly have that 6x 10% mitigation + Reprisal + Addle + Feint in most parties, especially in casual content.

Warrior got Shake it Off buffed not once, but TWICE. (got healing, and then Regen on top of that)
Paladin got a heal on top of Divine Veil

These are the biggest issues, in my opinion. The ones that actually make content easier than it was in ARR and Heavensward.

But there are some other abilities that affect how easy the content is compared to then - such as Bloodwhetting, Blackest Night, Holy Sheltron, PLD spell heals and healers having an abundance of off-global heals so they don't have to cast heals anymore (to be fair, players pressured SE into this direction by always wanting to DPS and trying to heal with only abilities and pets where possible even in Heavensward).

(PLD) Passage of Arms (15% mit)

Since keeping this up long-term involves DPS loss, I think that it's fine. For example, when Ahk Morn was used in EX1, I used it briefly but I let it go the whole way through if a party member was dead and accepted the DPS loss, because this sustained 15% mit made up for the lost party member and allowed us to survive.

Reprisal (10% mit)
Dark Missionary/Heart of Light (DRK/GNB| 10% Magic mit)

No issue with these again. It's a tank's job and we've had things like this since the game began (PLD had STR down, DRK had INT down). It was never an issue until Endwalker.