Samurai Deleted Action(s), Comeback of Ageha in 7.x or beyond?

[HikariKurosawa]

[QUOTE=Cynric;6381369]

The sword is never re-oriented before drawing the katana out of the saya entirely. It makes absolutely zero sense from the angle of realistic function to do anything like that prior to actually drawing the sword, let alone before sheathing it. By the time you have drawn it too, the attack is engaged and there is no time for weeb flair animations. /QUOTE]

Many kata end with reorientation of the blade and saya to sheathe it. Depends on your kenjutsu and iaido. But those kata do exist. They certainly don’t happen as fast as kaiten but we’ll , that’s the warrior of light for you.

I get your argument about the animation after drawing the blade , though kaiten happens right before sheathing it. It’s a little over exaggerated but not anymore unrealistic than midare.

That being said I have absolutely no opinion on Kaiten and don’t wish to join the argument about it. Though I’m sure it being gone has more to do with a game design reason over anything to do with the animation.

Show me an example of a legitimate style that re-orients the saya before iaijutsu lol. Please. When the tip of the sword leaves the mouth, you have full freedom to change the angle of the slash within a moment. All it does is risk dulling the edge of the blade on top of risking damage to the saya itself. You want to work with gravity and have it maintaining contact with the spine of the sword and the saya, not the side, nor the edge. I understand that there are people who pretend they know what they are doing and teach students to turn the saya prior to drawing, but it's incorrect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zP4mha9_9ic Even in japan, there will be schools that do things incorrectly. I'd like to see an example of it, but it's not like it's unusual. People are people, all over the world.

[Cynric]

Show me an example of a legitimate style that re-orients the saya before iaijutsu lol. Please. When the tip of the sword leaves the mouth, you have full freedom to change the angle of the slash within a moment. All it does is risk dulling the edge of the blade on top of risking damage to the saya itself. You want to work with gravity and have it maintaining contact with the spine of the sword and the saya, not the side, nor the edge. I understand that there are people who pretend they know what they are doing and teach students to turn the saya prior to drawing, but it's incorrect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zP4mha9_9ic Even in japan, there will be schools that do things incorrectly. I'd like to see an example of it, but it's not like it's unusual. People are people, all over the world.

I think it's mostly a misunderstanding of what I'm saying. I'm saying at the end of kata, it can be common to sheathe a sword in a way that could be similar to the animation to kaiten. (minus the end part)

In FFXIV the rotation is never ending really. So they aren't really comparable to the single strike nature of Samurai even within the job.

Here is a pretty neat demonstration from a very long time ago. You can notice within this demonstration there are sometimes moments where the sword (while much less exaggerated) is sheathed in a similar way to the motion of the kaiten animation if it happens before iaijutsu. That being said the very end of kaiten (which I'll be honest I never really saw) with the holding up the sword is a little weird.
https://youtu.be/0MtWtPEbTb0?si=XcsKpi69zSGlOvw3

[SoloD007]

[QUOTE=AsiTsurugi;6380755]TLDR: "Me special, me not like those filthy parsers".

"Now if you weren't too self-absorbed, you'd go and see (in that compiled thread) that people that don't do savage or even raid making threads/posts about wanting Kaiten back. I have yet to see anyone complain about losing a deathblow, which every job had removed at the start of ShB, and you just "want it back" with no reasons provided other than "it looked cool", which is also a reason we all want Kaiten back. You shooting down something because "me speshul" will backfire, and here it is."

Sorry AsiTsurugi;6380755, have we met somewhere before in game? or should I say do I know you? Look, I put my first idea up about Kaeshi: Higanbana being a double DoT, some people including you trying to shoot it down, Although the idea was getting shot down I still agreed with majority of the players including you because you were spitting facts (even though I knew the facts that's been mentioned). However, I'm was just giving my honest opinion and you call me out? You said you are passionate about Samurai, cool. I'm also passionate about Samurai. But we have different views on Samurai and that's just that. Also I never mentioned or have any intention to call out parsers so don't put your own words into my mouth, thanks. I just mentioned that, people that are chasing better parse would want Kaiten back (and there is nothing wrong about that). Or did I hit a soft spot for you? Also if you are someone from creative business unit III or a head of that department, and you think it can't be done or the unit can't be bothered with it, then just say it upfront politely with a 'no' or 'sorry, it can't be done due to x reason'. You coming here calling me and other people out and pointing negative things and also making up words or intentions that other people didn't say nor think is just toxic. Which show a lot about you as a person (personality and attitude). If your reason to log on into the forum everyday is just to call people out and shoot people down then you need to re-think about your life and as a person. I had no qualms with you before nor with people chasing after Kaiten but you have to make it personal? Again I'll state it for you just in case you can't compute it, I'm was just stating my honest opinion and I'll state it again. Whether you agree with or not, is a different story. Don't try to force others to agree with you and don't try to passively force others into your agreement by spewing gossip that wasn't even mentioned or thought of. Don't be a terrorist. But in my opinion, since you have started to fight back to me when I haven't even throw the first punch then my honest opinion is that you need to play another game. Also a friendly FYI impersonating a Square-Enix staff is against the ToC or it's agreement, https://support.na.square-enix.com/f...la=1&kid=68216 and finally. All I did was asking politely whether Ageha can be brought back. I don't need your so called "constructive feedback". Thanks.

[SoloD007]

Oh wow a 60 second cooldown that can be used once in the entire fight? how useless is that, and then it only got 250 potency xD make it 2500 and 100% crit and fill your kenki bar 100%.

It looks like inspired by Execute from WoW, but, Execute had no cooldown and cost rage instead of generating rage.
Something similar would be like Shinten, but the damage based on the amount of Kenki you have and no cooldown

Example:
Ageha
Ability , Kenki Cost: 25
Recast: 1 s
Consumes all your Kenki to delivers an attack with a potency of 350-1100 based on the amount of Kenki you have.

Again, I'll state it if you miss the previous post I mentioned that if it's possible, Ageha can't be RE-WORKED so that it doesn't become useless.

[SoloD007]

Kaiten is one of the worst animations this job has ever had lol. It's like poser samurai anime flair to the maximum. So glad it was removed and ikishoten should be next, then guren.

Only then will samurai stop being an anime fantasy job and reflect the fantasy of actual samurai values.

It's fine to like kaiten for its animation, but not everyone is in the same boat and it's a really good thing that it was removed.

Ageha as a kenki dump on a 60 second cooldown would be much cooler. Varying potency with amount of kenki pooled is also a great idea. The one problem this job has currently is too much kenki and too much shinten spam.

Thank you.

[SoloD007]

I don't really think you understand much about where Samurai's attacks come from.
--
Iaijutsu (居合術) is a combative quick-draw sword technique.[1] This art of drawing the Japanese sword, katana, is one of the Japanese koryū martial art disciplines in the education of the classical warrior (bushi).
--

Iaijutsu literally is the art of quick drawing your sword. In real life if you practice Iaido (居合道) or Kenjutsu（剣術） that involves Iaijutsu（居合術）, then you will sheathe your sword in order to perform the technique.

It's not necessarily about it being a "really strong technique" or "looking cool" this is an entire style of how swords are used.

Then to go into thrusts, many Kata in Kenjutsu and Iaido use thrusts, Hissatsu means certain kill. In the days where swords were used by armies a lot, thrusts were the common method of attack to kill an enemy because a slash will typically not pierce armor. That being said the sword was not used as often as many more armies favored spears and bows. Spears were better for penetrating armor and had a better range than a sword.

So in terms of translations here to make it even easier to understand :

Iaijutsu - 居合（iai) means the　art of drawing one's sword, cutting down one's opponent and sheathing the sword afterwards.
　（術） means art or technique. Literally the translation is the art or technique of cutting an opponent down and then sheathing your blade. Jutsu can also mean magic in a different context.

Kenjutsu - 剣 (Ken) means sword,
　　　　　　　　術 (Jutsu) again means technique or art. Jutsu can also mean magic in a different context.

必殺技(hissatsu)
Noun
killer technique; surefire assassination method​
special or lethal move

Those "flourishes" are actually standard parts of Iaido kata today. Iaido is the modern form of Iaijutsu. You should look up Iaido demonstrations and you'll see the "flourishes" as you call them are often just creative ways to clean blood off your sword or a way to sheathe your sword.

So yeah I guess you could say it doesn't make sense but it just seems like you don't really know much about Japanese culture. The current samurai is half based on the "fantastical samurai" and the post Edo period style Samurai. But the attacks are very grounded in real life techniques for the most part.

Wonderful! Thank you for the awesome and well informative information. I learned stuff from you that I didn't know before. So I thank you again for your constructive feedback, unlike some other people that just know how to bully or attempt to bully others into their submission because they think they are Gods or they are omnipotent creatures that knows everything and is always right haha. So thank you very much again . Have a safe journey and god speed!

[SoloD007]

whole lot of "i am very smart" energy here.

Hi, he is smart because he takes the time to learn about the Japanese culture. He's passionate and dedicated to it. I see no issues here. I would do the same rather than be ignorant and think the world is my oyster because news flash and reality check. The world is not yours and you don't have to agree with other people and other people don't have to agree with you either. Nor you have the right to criticize on other people when they are giving informative information. Thanks

[SoloD007]

TLDR: "Me special, me not like those filthy parsers".

Now if you weren't too self-absorbed, you'd go and see (in that compiled thread) that people that don't do savage or even raid making threads/posts about wanting Kaiten back. I have yet to see anyone complain about losing a deathblow, which every job had removed at the start of ShB, and you just "want it back" with no reasons provided other than "it looked cool", which is also a reason we all want Kaiten back. You shooting down something because "me speshul" will backfire, and here it is.

"I don't use Kaiten so I don't care". I started playing the game just before 5.2, I didn't even know this terrible skill called "Ahega" existed till now, let alone use it, so I should also just dismiss it out of hand, and I have no qualms whatsoever doing that. It was a terrible skill with 0 use in any situation. When I mentioned this thread to a few of my friends, the response was "Oh that Ninja-adjacent shit? I am glad it's gone", and those are people that have played the game since Heavensward, and guess what, I will agree with that assessment. The animation was just a slightly longer Shinten, the functionality was absolutely god-awful that I am glad it's gone so I didn't have to see that in my hotbar when I started playing.

Oh and also on top of what i said to you in another post, if you wake up and log into forum and just to bully others into agreeing with your opinion, you are just breeding toxicity in the forum which turns/puts people off from actually want to make the game better or giving out ideas or just asking if a skill can be bought back from a past expansion. I don't know what life you have lived nor your background or your upbringing but all I know is you need to dig yourself a hole and sit in there and have a deep self reflection about yourself. It will help you and help everyone around you because right now, I can tell you have a toxic personality and most likely the people around you or the people you hang with are also same as you. Toxic. (because like attracts like, or what you put out in the world, the world will give it back to you the same way. It's a unspoken law of the world). So please. Come back to the forum when you have re-formed yourself and have become more mature. Thanks.

[Wyssahtyn]

Hi, he is smart because he takes the time to learn about the Japanese culture. He's passionate and dedicated to it. I see no issues here. I would do the same rather than be ignorant and think the world is my oyster because news flash and reality check. The world is not yours and you don't have to agree with other people and other people don't have to agree with you either. Nor you have the right to criticize on other people when they are giving informative information. Thanks

Right, so, first off, I am Japanese. Secondly, I've did kenjutsu for over ten years in my youth. All the poster did is reveal the depths of their ignorance while attacking someone else over their supposed lack of knowledge by info dumping a bunch of irrelevant information. In the end, they're still wrong about the original point (that they didn't even argue against correctly), because as the person they quoted stated, you wouldn't be sheathing and drawing your weapon over and over again in the middle of a fight as XIV's Samurai does. In other words, they prettied their post up with a bunch of mostly correct, if contextually irrelevant, information in an attempt to appear as an authority on the subject when any actual authority would tell you that, no, Samurai's animations are very much style over substance. Frankly the fact they compare Samurai's many excessive flourishes to something like chiburi is extremely laughable.

[HikariKurosawa]

I think it's mostly a misunderstanding of what I'm saying. I'm saying at the end of kata, it can be common to sheathe a sword in a way that could be similar to the animation to kaiten. (minus the end part)

In FFXIV the rotation is never ending really. So they aren't really comparable to the single strike nature of Samurai even within the job.

Here is a pretty neat demonstration from a very long time ago. You can notice within this demonstration there are sometimes moments where the sword (while much less exaggerated) is sheathed in a similar way to the motion of the kaiten animation if it happens before iaijutsu. That being said the very end of kaiten (which I'll be honest I never really saw) with the holding up the sword is a little weird.
https://youtu.be/0MtWtPEbTb0?si=XcsKpi69zSGlOvw3

That's the school's style of chiburi as another poster pointed out. Kaiten was a goofy animation with no relation to anything practical in reality. There's no two ways about it. I'm glad it's gone, and I'd like to see ikishoten gone next. Then guren changed to a radial so we don't have that goofy linear aoe airwave attack in the game anymore. Samurai is very close to being a perfect job thematically and practically, but it still has some goofy aspects left over. Removing kaiten was a step in the right direction, and now there are only two off-putting things left in it.

The only two additions I'd really like to see are 1) aoe bleed so we have more to do in aoe than spam tenka goken, and 2) a kenki dump so we don't have to use shinten so much. The idea of making ageha a 30 second cooldown that dumps all kenki and has varying potency based on amount of kenki is a great one, but it doesn't have to be ageha. I do think the animation is cool, but it might not flow very well in combat and seems weird against raid bosses or targets you cant get very close to because of the kick component.

We'll see what happens for dawntrail, but this job is very close to perfection as is.