What would a new tank even contribute at this point

[Boblawblah]

I think FFXIV dev team should learn more from WoW

[Zairava]

WoW does the diversity of tanking styles with both offensive and defensive kits quite well, actually. The biggest block is light vs. medium vs. heavy armor, which won't work with how ffxiv is designed.

[Thurmnmurmn]

There's a lot of good that FFXIV could take from WOW. Just like the opposite is just as true.

MMOs as a whole are kinda in a bad spot in recent years. Why not try to help each other out instead of just "WOW bad, FFXIV good"

[Boblawblah]

Why not try to help each other out instead of just "WOW bad, FFXIV good"

Because WoW is bad, and I like FFXIV.

[Astralrisk]

Because WoW is bad, and I like FFXIV.

WoW has some interesting class designs even if the game balance is horrible for some one them. Obviously its more about sustain damage rather than hard mitigation for one moment, but they can adapt some ideas and identities from that game and give it good twist on it in XIV (if they actually care about being creative).

[Avoidy]

This genre learns from itself and copies from each other all the time. Hell, when they were developing ARR, Yoshi told his devteam to go and look at what other MMOs were doing. He even famously told them to go play other popular MMOs at the time, including WoW.
This kneejerk WoW hate is ridiculous. And I don't even like WoW btw. It's obvious the devs are in a creative rut; they'd hella benefit from just stealing something that actually works from another game so we're not getting the same recycled crap for the next ten years.

[ForteNightshade]

snip

Unfortunately, WoW's design only works because the devs pretty much don't care if a handful of classes become unviable for a tier. Not to mention, it's common for both tanks and healers to be rotated out entirely once their relevance is no longer necessary. Both are things FF intentionally aims to avoid. This makes it significantly harder for any one job to stand out individually because it becomes a nightmare to balance. Case in point, if Paladin were group oriented but the upcoming raid tier or Ultimate ficused predominantly on single target damage, it's essentially a dead job because all it brings at that point is "below moderate" damage. Likewise, the way tank busters work in FF, a pure sustain tank simply can't work. Unmitigated busters deal upwards of 200k or more. Even with echo, Warrior can't reach that amount of raw healing. In fact, they actually intended for this when ARR first launched. Warrior had very little mitigation. It was so bad, people were bringing two Paladins. Hence why they got a complete rework to their mit suite to the basis of what we see today.

I don't want to say they can't do anything to better diversify jobs but it will virtually guarantee some degree of imbalance. Which means the community needs to accept their favourite job might be turned away for a tier or two if we ever go down that road. Sure, you could argue people shouldn't do that and "all jobs would still be able to clear. So it doesn't matter!" Said community has proven time and again that isn't how it will play out.

[GoatOfWar]

First and foremost, OP, you really need to let go of this vendetta you have towards Warrior. It's not nearly the supposed god you keep insisting it is. Especially when you consider it was thoroughly outclassed for almost two full expansions.

And how realistic is it exactly for the average, or even above average player to even get any value out of Dark knight that you wouldn't already get out of Warrior but better?
Let's look at this static i've been playing with casually shall we? We have a machinist, uh oh! I'm missing out on crucial party buffs and so now i'm already better off playing Warrior even if i play perfectly.
Maybe there's casual content where i can get value out of Dark kni- nope. Warrior beats it at every piece of casual content. Old ultimates? Dark knight does less damage and doesn't even get a partywide.
I'm beyond annoyed with Warrior's current state in the game. It leaves so little space for my favourite job to be good anywhere else besides the microscopically small community of people doing speedkills.. And even there, under the perfect conditions, you hardly even get anything out of it. Meanwhile i have to feel bad for taking my job into any piece of content because it's just strictly worse than warrior. I don't play under the perfect buff window, in a group of perfect players. Why is this the standard we're setting for Dark knight players? Why the fuck should i have to feel bad for taking my favourite class into any piece of content?

Dark knight is the most selfish tank in the game and it doesn't even do more damage than the medic tank that already did everything else better. 6.3 struck a good balance, but the game feels terrible to play rn.
I don't really see much of a point in staying around long term if they won't fix the state of the tanks come Dawntrail. I don't want to play Warrior.

[sindriiisgaming]

What would a new anything even contribute at this point

hopefully they add some job identity back to the game without risking wow levels of job exclusion

[Thurmnmurmn]

What would a new anything even contribute at this point

hopefully they add some job identity back to the game without risking wow levels of job exclusion

At this point I'd take that over what we currently have.