Alliance Raid Now iLvl Locked, Why??

[Supersnow845]

I don't agree CT should be changed into a 4 man. It still serves a purpose in introducing new players to 24-man raids. World of Darkness especially has unique mechanics new players wouldn't have seen before if they do it right after ARR.

Splitting out into its own roulette maybe, with separate rewards.

But doing so risks pushing the Alliance Roulette cheesing to a different raid. Whichever one gives the best rewards for the least effort.

Either way, the current solution doesn't stop cheesing. It only punishes overleveled players and serves to funnel gil into the MB for crafters. Cheesers are going to be the first to just buy gear off the MB, or have an alt they leave at 50, or buy a boost, or get a lvl 50 friend to queue with them.

If the current increase in rewards for the other raids isn't enough incentive to stop the cheesing, such that we needed an ilvl limit on the job, then taking MSQ progression into account and the Alliance Raids the player has unlocked will at least alleviate the problem of punishing innocent overleveled players.

It still doesn’t change the fact that if you are overlevelled to the point that you are unable to meet the ilvl requirements you don’t need to be doing the alliance roulette

This change makes it vastly more annoying to ilvl cheese (characters that are already existing have to rely on another person, new players not unlocking the later raids is rare and locks you out from useful things like Bozja)

Saying to check both MSQ and level doesn’t change the fact that if you are overlevelled to the point you are blocked by these requirements you don’t need to do the alliance roulette

[Erzaa]

It still doesn’t change the fact that if you are overlevelled to the point that you are unable to meet the ilvl requirements you don’t need to be doing the alliance roulette

Saying to check both MSQ and level doesn’t change the fact that if you are overlevelled to the point you are blocked by these requirements you don’t need to do the alliance roulette

Excuse me? Who are you to tell me or anyone else if we should or shouldn't be doing the Alliance Roulette?

What if I'm doing the Roulette during a Moogle event? Or doing it with friends? Or... I don't know, because I just damn well feel like it?

This change makes it vastly more annoying to ilvl cheese (characters that are already existing have to rely on another person, new players not unlocking the later raids is rare and locks you out from useful things like Bozja)

And adding an MSQ condition to the ilvl check will change absolutely nothing about this. As for later raids being rare to unlock, you have any sources on that? Because I know multiple people who speed ran the MSQ and unlocked nothing else.

Your entire response boils down to, this solution isn't great, but let's not improve it because.. eh, eff those overleveled players who never did anything to anyone.

[Supersnow845]

Excuse me? Who are you to tell me or anyone else if we should or shouldn't be doing the Alliance Roulette?

What if I'm doing the Roulette during a Moogle event? Or doing it with friends? Or... I don't know, because I just damn well feel like it?



And adding an MSQ condition to the ilvl check will change absolutely nothing about this. As for later raids being rare to unlock, you have any sources on that? Because I know multiple people who speed ran the MSQ and unlocked nothing else.

Your entire response boils down to, this solution isn't great, but let's not improve it because.. eh, eff those overleveled players who never did anything to anyone.

And you aren’t blocked from doing the alliance roulette; you just need to go out and buy gear or run it on a different job this also applies for things like the tomestone events , the roulettes are there to fill queues for people who are queuing directly and this update has changed that, now it’s much easier to get nier and ivalice raids because people can’t cheese anymore

As for your point about “many people speedrun the MSQ that’s a small proportion; lucky brancho surveys show that over 80% of level 80% players have access to Bozja, that requires ivalice, lalaachievments only checks achievements so you can hide it but on there over 95% of players have the void ark achievement, the overwhelming majority of the playerbase has the alliance raids unlocked

Call it callous but like I said if you are level 84 on your main while during ARR you don’t need to do the alliance roulette

[kaynide]

Just to add, there is nothing stopping a newly leveled 60 player from just buying gear to get the required ilvl.

Agaaaaiiin I don’t think it’s necessarily fair to require this 60 to have endgame-ish 60 gear just to do a roulette that would include the lower 60s…but by 63ish you really can/should be way over ilvl’d for the 60 roulette unless you just don’t want to gear up.

(And again I think the ilvl requirements should kick in a few levels later as a sort of grace period)

[PyurBlue]

It still doesn’t change the fact that if you are overlevelled to the point that you are unable to meet the ilvl requirements you don’t need to be doing the alliance roulette

Which is fine. We're playing a game to have fun.

This change makes it vastly more annoying to ilvl cheese (characters that are already existing have to rely on another person, new players not unlocking the later raids is rare and locks you out from useful things like Bozja)

But it turns out that was probably a rare occurrence, so nothing has really changed.

Saying to check both MSQ and level doesn’t change the fact that if you are overlevelled to the point you are blocked by these requirements you don’t need to do the alliance roulette

Regardless, the alliance roulette shouldn't lock you out for no reason.

And you aren’t blocked from doing the alliance roulette; you just need to go out and buy gear or run it on a different job this also applies for things like the tomestone events , the roulettes are there to fill queues for people who are queuing directly and this update has changed that, now it’s much easier to get nier and ivalice raids because people can’t cheese anymore

No one should have to. They should be able to queue after unlocking the initial requirements, like any other roulette. AR is poorly designed.

As for your point about “many people speedrun the MSQ that’s a small proportion; lucky brancho surveys show that over 80% of level 80% players have access to Bozja, that requires ivalice, lalaachievments only checks achievements so you can hide it but on there over 95% of players have the void ark achievement, the overwhelming majority of the playerbase has the alliance raids unlocked

I don't see why only impacting a minority of players makes a problem go away. We could have a solution that reduces the change of CT popping up (ilvl probably doesn't) while at the same time not being overly complicated or annoying (like AR currently is).

Call it callous but like I said if you are level 84 on your main while during ARR you don’t need to do the alliance roulette

You don't need to anything in something that you opt into. It doesn't matter.

Just to add, there is nothing stopping a newly leveled 60 player from just buying gear to get the required ilvl.

There may be a number of things from lack of funds or knowledge, to MSQ progress.

Agaaaaiiin I don’t think it’s necessarily fair to require this 60 to have endgame-ish 60 gear just to do a roulette that would include the lower 60s…but by 63ish you really can/should be way over ilvl’d for the 60 roulette unless you just don’t want to gear up.

This isn't always an issue of being a couple of levels off. You can hit 70 before MSQ level 50. I've done it, and that's not even being completely efficient at leveling.

[Supersnow845]

Which circles back to the point that you aren’t actually getting locked out of the roulette, if you entire enjoyment of the game during the MSQ revolves around doing the alliance roulette you can do it on a secondary job or pay to buy higher level gear to do it on your main

You are literally only blocked from doing it on your massively overlevelled main if you also don’t want to shell out money to buy non tomestone gear, it’s such a non issue

[Erzaa]

As for your point about “many people speedrun the MSQ that’s a small proportion; lucky brancho surveys show that over 80% of level 80% players have access to Bozja, that requires ivalice, lalaachievments only checks achievements so you can hide it but on there over 95% of players have the void ark achievement, the overwhelming majority of the playerbase has the alliance raids unlocked

Care to link this statistic? Because, I looked up this Lucky Bancho you just mentioned and what I see doesn't support that. It seems to be more around 50/50 of active players. Slightly higher for those who did unlock Bozja and Eureka.

https://luckybancho.ldblog.jp/wsurve...m?world=Global
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ja_vs_abyssos/

Then again, I'm not the smartest cookie when it comes to statistics, so what am I reading wrong here? Eureka Unopened 48.8% Save the Queen Unopened 47.6%

And you aren’t blocked from doing the alliance roulette; you just need to go out and buy gear or run it on a different job this also applies for things like the tomestone events,...

I said this before already, but having a workaround to a problem, doesn't make it a solution. Also, I'm confused... Isn't a point of contention on the forums, I've seen in the past, that there's no active gil sync in the game? Rich players with too much gil and nothing to do with it? Why are we actively supporting adding more gil then?

...the roulettes are there to fill queues for people who are queuing directly and this update has changed that, now it’s much easier to get nier and ivalice raids because people can’t cheese anymore

And how does locking out players who may have those raids unlocked and actively discouraging them from queueing help here? If they queued, you'd have an even higher chance of getting those raids, slight increase as it might be.

Call it callous but like I said if you are level 84 on your main while during ARR you don’t need to do the alliance roulette

Callous is a good word for it, yes.

Point is simple, something that worked in the past for overleveled players was taken away from them, due to an implementation of a suggested fix by the playerbase. Said playerbase suggested a fix that was lacking, without putting any forethought into the consequences, and are now fervently arguing against an improvement to said fix. I don't think anyone who suggested this was acting in bad faith, but maybe egos are getting in the way of realising their idea was flawed.

[PyurBlue]

Which circles back to the point that you aren’t actually getting locked out of the roulette, if you entire enjoyment of the game during the MSQ revolves around doing the alliance roulette you can do it on a secondary job or pay to buy higher level gear to do it on your main

You are literally only blocked from doing it on your massively overlevelled main if you also don’t want to shell out money to buy non tomestone gear, it’s such a non issue

Why is it all or nothing? The game requires you to level to progress and has lot of different unlock conditions for different content. I doubt anyone's entire enjoyment of the game comes from alliance, but obviously the experience can be negative impacted by being thrown a random roadblock to content. It's just bad design. Let's fix it. There are no downsides, why would you actively defend bad design?

[Supersnow845]

snip

You have to look at it in the context of how many people have actually reached the point that unlocking them becomes an option, saying 50% of people never unlocked Bozja implies that 50% of those who have the option to unlock Bozja have unlocked Bozja, however only 66% of the playerbase has completed the MSQ, obviously there is some amount in EW but 50% of 100% is about 80% of 66%, this is of course using Bozja as a proxy for ivalice, lalaachievments is better and put completion of the raids at over 95%

I wouldn’t even consider Gil sink a factor in here, old crafted gear is extremely cheap, lack of incentive for people to level crafters is a different argument to the Gil sink problem, but neither factor in here because old gear is cheap

Because it’s locking out the very small fraction of people who don’t have this stuff unlocked; if you are level 84 in the post ARR MSQ you aren’t helping anyone because the roulette doesn’t need any more incentive to pop CT, this change increased the proportion of people queuing for the roulette who are adequately levelled and have all the raids unlocked

I have no idea why you are acting like the level 90 playerbase made some unified decision on this, I have no reason to defend squares decision on this as some point of pride, it has just been a positive change for the roulette

[Supersnow845]

Why is it all or nothing? The game requires you to level to progress and has lot of different unlock conditions for different content. I doubt anyone's entire enjoyment of the game comes from alliance, but obviously the experience can be negative impacted by being thrown a random roadblock to content. It's just bad design. Let's fix it. There are no downsides, why would you actively defend bad design?

Because the suggestion being offered (check MSQ progression) isn’t an improvement for anyone but the tiny fraction of the playerbase affected by this who are also complaining about it

If you are level 84 in the ARR post game you only have CT unlocked, you are functionally accidentally ILVL cheesing, the roulette doesn’t need more incentives to pop CT, doubt it on another job is already going to pop CT more anyway