Alliance Raid Now iLvl Locked, Why??

[Erzaa]

because ilvl cheesing was a thing before CT became a msq Requirement. why it took them this long. i have no idea. honestly CT needs to be redone and just needs to be tossed in MSQ roulette as a 4 man at this point.

I don't agree CT should be changed into a 4 man. It still serves a purpose in introducing new players to 24-man raids. World of Darkness especially has unique mechanics new players wouldn't have seen before if they do it right after ARR.

Splitting out into its own roulette maybe, with separate rewards.

But doing so risks pushing the Alliance Roulette cheesing to a different raid. Whichever one gives the best rewards for the least effort.

Either way, the current solution doesn't stop cheesing. It only punishes overleveled players and serves to funnel gil into the MB for crafters. Cheesers are going to be the first to just buy gear off the MB, or have an alt they leave at 50, or buy a boost, or get a lvl 50 friend to queue with them.

If the current increase in rewards for the other raids isn't enough incentive to stop the cheesing, such that we needed an ilvl limit on the job, then taking MSQ progression into account and the Alliance Raids the player has unlocked will at least alleviate the problem of punishing innocent overleveled players.

[Supersnow845]

I don't agree CT should be changed into a 4 man. It still serves a purpose in introducing new players to 24-man raids. World of Darkness especially has unique mechanics new players wouldn't have seen before if they do it right after ARR.

Splitting out into its own roulette maybe, with separate rewards.

But doing so risks pushing the Alliance Roulette cheesing to a different raid. Whichever one gives the best rewards for the least effort.

Either way, the current solution doesn't stop cheesing. It only punishes overleveled players and serves to funnel gil into the MB for crafters. Cheesers are going to be the first to just buy gear off the MB, or have an alt they leave at 50, or buy a boost, or get a lvl 50 friend to queue with them.

If the current increase in rewards for the other raids isn't enough incentive to stop the cheesing, such that we needed an ilvl limit on the job, then taking MSQ progression into account and the Alliance Raids the player has unlocked will at least alleviate the problem of punishing innocent overleveled players.

It still doesn’t change the fact that if you are overlevelled to the point that you are unable to meet the ilvl requirements you don’t need to be doing the alliance roulette

This change makes it vastly more annoying to ilvl cheese (characters that are already existing have to rely on another person, new players not unlocking the later raids is rare and locks you out from useful things like Bozja)

Saying to check both MSQ and level doesn’t change the fact that if you are overlevelled to the point you are blocked by these requirements you don’t need to do the alliance roulette

[Erzaa]

It still doesn’t change the fact that if you are overlevelled to the point that you are unable to meet the ilvl requirements you don’t need to be doing the alliance roulette

Saying to check both MSQ and level doesn’t change the fact that if you are overlevelled to the point you are blocked by these requirements you don’t need to do the alliance roulette

Excuse me? Who are you to tell me or anyone else if we should or shouldn't be doing the Alliance Roulette?

What if I'm doing the Roulette during a Moogle event? Or doing it with friends? Or... I don't know, because I just damn well feel like it?

This change makes it vastly more annoying to ilvl cheese (characters that are already existing have to rely on another person, new players not unlocking the later raids is rare and locks you out from useful things like Bozja)

And adding an MSQ condition to the ilvl check will change absolutely nothing about this. As for later raids being rare to unlock, you have any sources on that? Because I know multiple people who speed ran the MSQ and unlocked nothing else.

Your entire response boils down to, this solution isn't great, but let's not improve it because.. eh, eff those overleveled players who never did anything to anyone.

[Supersnow845]

Excuse me? Who are you to tell me or anyone else if we should or shouldn't be doing the Alliance Roulette?

What if I'm doing the Roulette during a Moogle event? Or doing it with friends? Or... I don't know, because I just damn well feel like it?



And adding an MSQ condition to the ilvl check will change absolutely nothing about this. As for later raids being rare to unlock, you have any sources on that? Because I know multiple people who speed ran the MSQ and unlocked nothing else.

Your entire response boils down to, this solution isn't great, but let's not improve it because.. eh, eff those overleveled players who never did anything to anyone.

And you aren’t blocked from doing the alliance roulette; you just need to go out and buy gear or run it on a different job this also applies for things like the tomestone events , the roulettes are there to fill queues for people who are queuing directly and this update has changed that, now it’s much easier to get nier and ivalice raids because people can’t cheese anymore

As for your point about “many people speedrun the MSQ that’s a small proportion; lucky brancho surveys show that over 80% of level 80% players have access to Bozja, that requires ivalice, lalaachievments only checks achievements so you can hide it but on there over 95% of players have the void ark achievement, the overwhelming majority of the playerbase has the alliance raids unlocked

Call it callous but like I said if you are level 84 on your main while during ARR you don’t need to do the alliance roulette

[Erzaa]

As for your point about “many people speedrun the MSQ that’s a small proportion; lucky brancho surveys show that over 80% of level 80% players have access to Bozja, that requires ivalice, lalaachievments only checks achievements so you can hide it but on there over 95% of players have the void ark achievement, the overwhelming majority of the playerbase has the alliance raids unlocked

Care to link this statistic? Because, I looked up this Lucky Bancho you just mentioned and what I see doesn't support that. It seems to be more around 50/50 of active players. Slightly higher for those who did unlock Bozja and Eureka.

https://luckybancho.ldblog.jp/wsurve...m?world=Global
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ja_vs_abyssos/

Then again, I'm not the smartest cookie when it comes to statistics, so what am I reading wrong here? Eureka Unopened 48.8% Save the Queen Unopened 47.6%

And you aren’t blocked from doing the alliance roulette; you just need to go out and buy gear or run it on a different job this also applies for things like the tomestone events,...

I said this before already, but having a workaround to a problem, doesn't make it a solution. Also, I'm confused... Isn't a point of contention on the forums, I've seen in the past, that there's no active gil sync in the game? Rich players with too much gil and nothing to do with it? Why are we actively supporting adding more gil then?

...the roulettes are there to fill queues for people who are queuing directly and this update has changed that, now it’s much easier to get nier and ivalice raids because people can’t cheese anymore

And how does locking out players who may have those raids unlocked and actively discouraging them from queueing help here? If they queued, you'd have an even higher chance of getting those raids, slight increase as it might be.

Call it callous but like I said if you are level 84 on your main while during ARR you don’t need to do the alliance roulette

Callous is a good word for it, yes.

Point is simple, something that worked in the past for overleveled players was taken away from them, due to an implementation of a suggested fix by the playerbase. Said playerbase suggested a fix that was lacking, without putting any forethought into the consequences, and are now fervently arguing against an improvement to said fix. I don't think anyone who suggested this was acting in bad faith, but maybe egos are getting in the way of realising their idea was flawed.

[Supersnow845]

snip

You have to look at it in the context of how many people have actually reached the point that unlocking them becomes an option, saying 50% of people never unlocked Bozja implies that 50% of those who have the option to unlock Bozja have unlocked Bozja, however only 66% of the playerbase has completed the MSQ, obviously there is some amount in EW but 50% of 100% is about 80% of 66%, this is of course using Bozja as a proxy for ivalice, lalaachievments is better and put completion of the raids at over 95%

I wouldn’t even consider Gil sink a factor in here, old crafted gear is extremely cheap, lack of incentive for people to level crafters is a different argument to the Gil sink problem, but neither factor in here because old gear is cheap

Because it’s locking out the very small fraction of people who don’t have this stuff unlocked; if you are level 84 in the post ARR MSQ you aren’t helping anyone because the roulette doesn’t need any more incentive to pop CT, this change increased the proportion of people queuing for the roulette who are adequately levelled and have all the raids unlocked

I have no idea why you are acting like the level 90 playerbase made some unified decision on this, I have no reason to defend squares decision on this as some point of pride, it has just been a positive change for the roulette

[Erzaa]

You have to look at it in the context of how many people have actually reached the point that unlocking them becomes an option, saying 50% of people never unlocked Bozja implies that 50% of those who have the option to unlock Bozja have unlocked Bozja, however only 66% of the playerbase has completed the MSQ, obviously there is some amount in EW but 50% of 100% is about 80% of 66%, this is of course using Bozja as a proxy for ivalice, lalaachievments is better and put completion of the raids at over 95%

I see.

I wouldn’t even consider Gil sink a factor in here, old crafted gear is extremely cheap, lack of incentive for people to level crafters is a different argument to the Gil sink problem, but neither factor in here because old gear is cheap

Uhm, no, it's very relevant. You're arguing for players who may or may not have the funds to buy said gear and funnel their limited gil to players who have the means of crafting it. Having said that, how cheap the gear is, depends entirely on the gear's level and the demand for said gear as well. If we were all to just shut up and buy said gear, even level 60 gear would increase in demand, raising their prices, making them even more expensive, funneling even more gil. So it's very relevant, and that's saying nothing about what the gear will cost next expansion.

Because it’s locking out the very small fraction of people who don’t have this stuff unlocked; if you are level 84 in the post ARR MSQ you aren’t helping anyone because the roulette doesn’t need any more incentive to pop CT, this change increased the priorities of people queuing for the roulette who are adequately levelled and have all the raids unlocked

I see. So a fraction of the playerbase losing access to something they had in the past, they don't matter.

You realise overleveled players don't necessarily need to be in ARR right? They're just one example. You could have level 70s still doing HW, level 80s still doing SB, level 90s still finishing up ShB. I have everything up to Nier unlocked and I'm locked out of AR on my favourite jobs right now. All those players, could be queueing right now and might have just decided to give up on AR completely. I know I have. It's also a matter of principle.

I have no idea why you are acting like the level 90 playerbase made some unified decision on this, I have no reason to defend squares decision on this as some point of pride, it has just been a positive change for the roulette

On this, I agree. I was merely commenting on the fact that previous posts mentioned this was something the playerbase suggested and pushed for and SE implemented to appease them. Take it with a grain of salt.