Alliance Raid Now iLvl Locked, Why??

[PyurBlue]

I'm sure I've said this before, but I guess for me, I see roulettes as a "I'm willing to do whatever content people are currently trying to do". You're choosing to help someone that wants to complete the raid and being rewarded for it.

We need to remember that FF14 is a game. At the end of the day, the only reason to engage with the game at all is entertainment. The roulettes, no matter their practical purpose in game, need to be fun. The developers may not be able to please everyone of course, but making something enjoyable and functional doesn't have to be a tradeoff. The roulettes are designed to fill queues, no one is saying otherwise, but that fact doesn't really change anything about this topic.

[TomsYoungerBro]

Most people asking for a MSQ check want it in addition to ilvl don't they? So there would be no cheesing involved.

Someone who has completed the story and at level 90 who is in ARR tome gear is "ilvl cheesing". Someone who is still in ARR, but has a level 90 character in ARR tome gear is effectively doing the same thing. I understand the "free" means of gearing isn't available to them, but both characters are effectively the same.

I'm not forgetting this. We don't know who exactly is being excluded from the roulette and how many raids they would qualify for (outside of CT obviously). So it's possible that everyone excluded qualifies for high level raids and so because of their exclusion, the instances of CT go up.

That is not very likely to be true, but I'm not trying to say that is what we're experiencing. I just want to point out the boundaries of what is possible.

Well we do know for a fact that people qualifying for 90 ARs when queueing would not be in this group since they would have to be proper ilvl to have unlocked those raids. That alone quantifies an increase in non-CT raids as the Twelve series is not impacted unlike CT. I do agree however that 60s, 70s, and 80s impacts are unknown.

[NonBinaryNyan]

Speaking as a player in ARR patch content who likes to explore a lot, prefers (and often needs) to take my time with MSQ *and* is severely over-leveled on my main jobs, I don't know what anybody's talking about with "poetics are useless." I use them to buy Augmented Ironworks stuff and turn *that* into seals at the Grand Company.

Those can then buy venture tokens, or any other number of useful or fun items!

[TaleraRistain]

I transfered to Dynamis - Seraph for my main to get my house. I usually have to go back to Aether dc just to do my dailies and pvp because there's a longer wait time compared to back on Aether. Come back on the weekends to check inside my house for retainers and snapshot my character in the house via server and fc chatting. Kinda hope we get cross dc servers duty finder so I dont have to keep doing that lol

I don't get a ton of time with my alt since I'm busy on my main. But with her I've been taking my time and enjoying the MSQ again and especially the changes for Duty Support. I have a rule that I try very hard to stick to that I queue her only on Dynamis because I want to help the queues there. Only exceptions have been the moogle tomes and one Alexander I could not get to pop. I think trying to get Niddy for MSQ there took like 2 hours. And I would do roulettes when I just didn't want to do MSQ that day. So it's a shame to be locked out of one I could help keep alive otherwise.

[TaleraRistain]

Also has anyone arguing for "MSQ progression" realized that being way undergeared for your level is indirectly ilvl cheesing?

If you take it with that definition then on a technical level that is a correct statement. But the thing that's being left out is intent. Those who were participating in ilevel cheesing had access to higher level gear and even had it on their character and deliberately swapped it out to manipulate the roulette. They didn't proceed with the raid with that gear either. They swapped it out for higher level gear.

With someone that doesn't have access to game-provided gear for the level that they're currently at, there is no intention to manipulate the roulette. They are queueing in with the intention to participate in the gear they're using in whatever raid they are placed into. They're using the highest level gear available from the game. Just the same as anyone else who queues.

[TomsYoungerBro]

If you take it with that definition then on a technical level that is a correct statement. But the thing that's being left out is intent. Those who were participating in ilevel cheesing had access to higher level gear and even had it on their character and deliberately swapped it out to manipulate the roulette. They didn't proceed with the raid with that gear either. They swapped it out for higher level gear.

With someone that doesn't have access to game-provided gear for the level that they're currently at, there is no intention to manipulate the roulette. They are queueing in with the intention to participate in the gear they're using in whatever raid they are placed into. They're using the highest level gear available from the game. Just the same as anyone else who queues.

These players do have access to higher-level gear that is provided by the game . The game provides them with the market board. The intention here is rather not to manipulate the raid, but instead overlevel classes well past your MSQ, undergear them, and still queue into roulette content with them. Maybe its the "kick in the pants" some of these players needed

[Brynne]

Someone who has completed the story and at level 90 who is in ARR tome gear is "ilvl cheesing". Someone who is still in ARR, but has a level 90 character in ARR tome gear is effectively doing the same thing. I understand the "free" means of gearing isn't available to them, but both characters are effectively the same.

This is kind of beside the point. Even if they go get the gear, they can't unlock the later raids because of their MSQ progress. So the gear makes absolutely no difference in terms of what raids they qualify for in the roulette, it's just gil being spent for no particular reason. If I were in that situation, I'd resent being told to go spend gil needlessly in order to do something that I could do before with no problem.

[TaleraRistain]

These players do have access to higher-level gear that is provided by the game . The game provides them with the market board. The intention here is rather not to manipulate the raid, but instead overlevel classes well past your MSQ, undergear them, and still queue into roulette content with them. Maybe its the "kick in the pants" some of these players needed

I think you should probably go play on a Dynamis server starting from scratch and see just how massive the Road to 80 buff is. It can't be turned off and it encourages someone to level all the classes because of how easy it makes getting them to 80. And the best way to do that is with roulettes. Someone with one class is definitely going to overlevel the MSQ but so will someone with multiple classes. That's how huge the experience gain is. Nobody on a Road to 80 server is putting effort into overleveling. It's just something that is going to happen there.

[TomsYoungerBro]

I think you should probably go play on a Dynamis server starting from scratch and see just how massive the Road to 80 buff is. It can't be turned off and it encourages someone to level all the classes because of how easy it makes getting them to 80. And the best way to do that is with roulettes. Someone with one class is definitely going to overlevel the MSQ but so will someone with multiple classes. That's how huge the experience gain is. Nobody on a Road to 80 server is putting effort into overleveling. It's just something that is going to happen there.

And losing access to the roulette (unless you decide to properly gear yourself) will help mitigate that . Thanks for adding in that point!

This is kind of beside the point. Even if they go get the gear, they can't unlock the later raids because of their MSQ progress. So the gear makes absolutely no difference in terms of what raids they qualify for in the roulette, it's just gil being spent for no particular reason. If I were in that situation, I'd resent being told to go spend gil needlessly in order to do something that I could do before with no problem.

People could also ilvl cheese before the patch with no problem too. Changes happen, and now the game is requiring them to properly gear their character.

[Katz_McKatz]

I haven't read all the replies for a few days but I will say this. Our FC used to do the Alliance Roulette every day with the lower level people who are new to the game. In fact that is why I came here to comment the first week of the change. We did it to be social, because the raids are fun, and because we could queue as a large group. We don't do that anymore. We help them out with dungeons or trials as they come to them but the large social fun alliance raids are abandoned by us. Why? Because the hassle isn't worth it.

The reward was a fun social experience. The goal was fun. We are in different time zones, have different meal times, outside responsibilities and so forth. Before we could just queue up because of the tanks and healers in our FC and run the alliance raid right away. Now its, wait, who can't go in? What is your lowest ilvl accessory, hmmm.. how can we fix that? They are saying, oh no, don't worry, I'll drop group, you guys go ahead. So we either leave some people out, the very people we are wanting to be social with, or spend time trying to get everyone ready. Rinse, repeat, because if they play a variety of things the jobs will level higher than the msq, repeatedly. If they have fixed this problem already, I wouldn't know, because we stopped doing that duty as a mixed level group.