Quote Originally Posted by Colt47 View Post
Like on this tier that is the big line in the sand why there are people who say the entire tier is fine, while others are saying it isn't. The people who are saying it is fine are those in extremely coordinated groups and they completely underestimate how much of a difference that makes. It doesn't matter how easy the jobs are, it matters how coordinated the people are and how much time they all had to study up, as well as if they are taking vacation to do the savage on launch, thus having their best hours of the day dedicated to it, vs the average joe who has to be burned out from work running 3 hours in the evening.

What made old savage work is that it allowed people to screw up if they had the gear for it, making it more doable by the evening average joe, while still being challenging enough in the first few weeks for people who are running in the more coordinated groups. The way they engineered this they are making the fights way more difficult for the average guy while everything else remains the same for someone who would be in Xenos shoes, or anyone else that has the time to do the fights for 8+ hours in a day. Those folks can understand the issue I'm mentioning if someone laid it out, but they aren't going to do it on a youtube video or make it popular to hear. Probably because the implication they give is that if they feel the content is mid-core, those who can't even do those mechanics or learn them properly in a few short sessions are in the wrong boat.
Can't agree with this assessment. As someone who progged every fight this tier in the PF learning all of the strats from random pastebins raidplans and what not, going into every fight practice party after practice party after practice party having to deal with prog liars in just about every group and then eventually joining clear parties and killing the bosses, I can say with confidence that you don't need an organized dedicated or highly coordinated group to kill any of the bosses in this tier. If the rest of us that progged in PF can learn the strats, practice the strats and eventually execute the strats all within in the randomness of the PF, so can anyone else. 3 hours is more than enough time to learn the bosses one mechanic at a time. Will you down the tier by week 3 or 4? probably not, but you will eventually kill it if you keep at it.

As for gear making things easier, you can literally skip superchain 2B in p12s nowadays. You can skip parted plumes in p10s (which is a very easy mech anyway.) You can skip limit cut 2 in p9s. Gear also makes the mitigation checks CONSIDERABLLY easier, so yes gear does still have a lot of value even for prog.