What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Turtledeluxe]

When he says the timelines could have diverged, he is confirming that they didn't. So the past and present being unified implies here that time became deterministic either due to the player or Venat following the events. Elidibus comments on this exact thing-- that a lack of meaningful change leads to the fated events. I clearly said in my post you can believe she lacks agency or you can believe she has total agency, but if she does it means she risks destroying the future we know to exist since the past and present have become unified. It isn't just "oh some magic timeline forms where we still result in the reflections and Venat is a hero". This is why your post is so long because you are avoiding it. You are focusing on everything Yoshi P said except for the fact that the past and present became unified, which conveniently works out for (again) preserving the timeline. Her preserving the timeline makes logical sense, saving Emet makes logical sense, based on the information she has.

I don't know you read their own answers and regard Venat as more than a tragic figure unless again, you get into headcanon. Originally you were all attacking me for implying the Elpis visit may have spawned an alternate timeline, now you're demanding it.

Saying you want another Venat in an AU is your opinion and I have no comment on it. If you think the resources and time spent to make an experience like that would be worth it for the main MSQ that's up to you. I'm not sure about that.

And again I don't even like that it's the same timeline, I think it's stupid. But pretending it isn't what he's saying is a waste of time. It's exactly what he said, he just gave his own reasons for why the timeline stayed the same which are headcanon bc he, like you, cannot come up with a good and practical reason for the timeline to diverge.

As far as Venat, I will also say they provide context surrounding what she did and imply her decision was "very Ancient like huh" which indicates to me, you're supposed to be viewing it as uncomfortable. But they also lend credibility to Y'Shtola's theory and its up to you to decide if it justifies. They're implying there it was a roadblock. They also mention that the disposition of many people who desired to avoid suffering was an existential threat.

I actually think with this is I don't have anything else to say. The writers make everything clear here imo. You have to decide if certain elements are justified. As for why the game and people of Eorzea treat Hydaelyn well, I imagine it's because they give her the benefit of the doubt that she did what she could and made the best decision she could. Assuming she gave no information at all, did nothing, let it all unfold to become a light God is just a take you can have.

[Eisi]

I think it's childish to assume the writers either wouldn't believe that Venat's actions would constitute genocide or that they would condone that action. But that's the point, the story is not that deep, the writers didn't think about it that much (also incidentally a Yoshi-P quote: "We didn't think players would think about it that deeply" with regards to the Elpis timeloop). And they show their hand constantly in the story, disengaging you and yanking you out of a state of immersion.

It's a Kingdom Hearts level story that needs to exist so that the game has a story. There is not much the writers had to say beyond "everything will be fine, we are here for you during Covid". No more, no less.

Let me go a little bit more into detail here. The story is written with the end in mind first and then everything up to that point is done so that it fits without much regard for characters or the like. What was the end goal for the Elpis timeloop? So that the previously unknown character Venat/Hydaelyn would share a bond with your WoL that spanned the ages. That's why it's not an alternate timeline. That's why she had to retain her memories. That's why Kairos was invented, a literal mindwipe device that exists just so the timeloop roughly makes sense even though it shouldn't even exist based on the Crystal Tower's prior function in Shadowbringers. So it's not like they wrote Venat's character beyond "I love the land and the people and I want them to be free". They didn't ask "What would such a person do in this situation" or "how with these parameters in mind would the story organically evolve from here". They asked "how can we make it so that the world evolved the exact same way it did, that she did everything that was established prior with the whole sundering the world thing and now simultaneous sharing of that new knowledge and bond with you". And since there's no good answer for that they had to give us bad answers that crumble under scrutiny - they should have arrived at the conclusion that the timeloop was a bad idea, but that's not how they operate. They had to have a timeloop and so they made it happen against all logic.

Why do you think Fandaniel claps before Zenos can kill a character in Garlemald? Well because they wanted to have a hype duel with the WoL and Zenos at the end of the storyline. And had Zenos killed for example our friend Alphinaud it would have never been hype. It's not that complicated. Also major character deaths are in general not appreciated in the writer's staff, I think that's pretty obvious since Y'shtola was sliced in half by Zenos at the beginning of Stormblood. Again, just think of the writers as having clearly defined goals first and then trying to write the characters and plotlines that lead there so as to fit those goals later with varying degrees of success.

So take the story for what it is and use your knowledge to tell better stories yourself. Or worse/equally as bad stories. The best thing the story can do for you is inspire you not just in spite of, but because of all it's shortcomings. That is the true message of Endwalker for me personally.

[Turtledeluxe]

False.

Not false. You fiercely argued for single timeline theory and you don't like that now it is confirmed, I'm pointing out problems it creates with regards to the whining in the thread about justifying Venat. It doesn't make it impossible, but they opted for time theory here that makes it complicated to address and can barely offer solid reasoning for why our single timeline didn't diverge.

I think it's childish to assume the writers either wouldn't believe that Venat's actions would constitute genocide or that they would condone that action. But that's the point, the story is not that deep, the writers didn't think about it that much (also incidentally a Yoshi-P quote: "We didn't think players would think about it that deeply" with regards to the Elpis timeloop). And they show their hand constantly in the story, disengaging you and yanking you out of a state of immersion.

Exactly.