Alliance Raid Now iLvl Locked, Why??

[TomsYoungerBro]

you are not making any sense. Not one talks about removing iLvl requirements but of having appropriate lvl requirements that take into consideration MSQ progress and not just job level. If you are lvl 90 but still in Stormblood, the highest ARs you can unlock at the HW ARs. Shouldn’t need lvl 90 gear for that.

But adding MSQ progress is not only something they've never done, but it does bypass the ilvl requirement completely. That in essence is removing it. The game shouldn't be catering to the maxed in HW/Stb/etc. exceptions. There is already a viable solution (actually using 90 gear at 90? lmao), and those players are already locking themselves out of content that is technically available at their level.

Edited in from your latest post:

No, not everyone plays the MB or crafts. Some players also purchase unlocks. We’ll see more of those players with the xbox and Dawntrail release.

I never said they are playing the MB or crafting? I said they were doing roulettes (which give gil :P). Also purchasing unlocks literally gives you gil and level equivalent gear. You have to be trolling at this point

[PyurBlue]

Heavy X to doubt on that one or confirmation bias. Ilvl lock would only increase your 60+ raids you are getting, not decrease.

It can only do so much when the roulette is naturally skewed to favor CT, which remains the only required raids and the lowest levels ones.

Then we should just remove all ilvl requirements on content then? Who cares if my scholar is only 620, let me into p9s >.<!! Ilvl locks are in the game everywhere. If you are level 90, get level 90 gear. Simple.

This is off topic. The problem outlined is that the roulette ilvl check doesn't take into account how you get gear. A player can easily outlevel the MSQ, which tends to limit gearing options. This creates a problem where a player can lock themselves out of the roulette, which is bad design. That is what people are trying to get fixed.

It's only necessary to run the low level ARs if you decided to Max out the game very early. If you do the story, you'll get access to free gear that will get you back into that content. Someone at 90 in HW is clearly doing roulettes, so they have to have some form of gil accumulated surely?

This doesn't solve the problem. The ilvl system is still bad design that can lock players out of content. They shouldn't have to spend money on gear they don't need, if they even have the money. There is also no guarantee that a player knows where to get gear anyway.

Instead of blindly trying to shoot down legitimate objections, why not at least try to see the glaring issues with the ilvl check?

Edit: Also an overleveled player would never have to buy crafted until it tanked in price. Considering Dawntrail increases our cap to level 100, the first AR wouldn't come out until 7.1 which is well after the crafted gear has decreased in value and the new "level 100 ilvl req" is released for the roulette.

Except this is when the crafted gear becomes upgradable and may actually rise in value, making it even harder to obtain. You're also assuming that player have nothing else to spend gil on.

Again, there are viable solutions to getting into the content even if you overlevel way passed where you are in the story. This was a great change from the devs.

The best solution is fixing the problem they created. Separate CT into its own roulette, or at the very least come up with a system that doesn't have a bunch of obvious flaws that are complicated to work around, as the current ilvl lock does.

New Alliance raids launch on the x.1 patch at which point the crafted gear drops in price heavily. There is not going to be a level 100 requirement until there's a new Alliance raid at level 100. Even then, the free gear from being 99/100 should cover 99% of the requirement like it does with this one.

Again upgrades will cause the price to increase not decrease, and no matter the price it's wasted money that could be spent elsewhere. There are better solutions that the one implemented and no reason why we shouldn't be asking for those instead.

But adding MSQ progress is not only something they've never done, but it does bypass the ilvl requirement completely. That in essence is removing it. The game shouldn't be catering to the maxed in HW/Stb/etc. exceptions. There is already a viable solution (actually using 90 gear at 90? lmao), and those players are already locking themselves out of content that is technically available at their level.

The game should work in a reasonable manner. Making excuses for poor features makes on sense. It's also nonsense to say that it's fine to ignore some subset of players just because you're not one of them. The "exceptions" (that we have no numbers for) can easily be catered to without creating additional problems, unlike what has happened with this ilvl situation.

[Toutatis]

But adding MSQ progress is not only something they've never done, but it does bypass the ilvl requirement completely. That in essence is removing it. The game shouldn't be catering to the maxed in HW/Stb/etc. exceptions. There is already a viable solution (actually using 90 gear at 90? lmao), and those players are already locking themselves out of content that is technically available at their level.

no, not at all. It doesn’t bypass the requirement since the players can’t unlock the content anyway and the gear would be synched down. Also, what part of iLvl paired with MSQ progress didn’t you get? As explained overleveling isn’t an exception now, definitely not on preferred worlds. There is no point in getting lvl 90 gear when one can’t even access lvl 90 content.

I never said they are playing the MB or crafting? I said they were doing roulettes (which give gil :P). Also purchasing unlocks literally gives you gil and level equivalent gear. You have to be trolling at this point

Atm gils to buy lvl 90 gear are not that big of an issue but it will become one. You also spend when you level up and you may want things that are better than gear that is useless other than to enter a roulette. The gil you get when buying a boost is not nearly enough to buy a new expansion crafted gear unless like now we are at the end of an expansion. Already explained that when Dawntrail comes out that gear will remain expensive for a while. 1st raid is usually released in x.1 when the first crafted gear is still quite expensive.

New Alliance raids launch on the x.1 patch at which point the crafted gear drops in price heavily. There is not going to be a level 100 requirement until there's a new Alliance raid at level 100. Even then, the free gear from being 99/100 should cover 99% of the requirement like it does with this one.

Same answer as above on the price of the crafted gear. It will still be expensive in 7.1. There will be only one set of crafted gear at that point. The free gear is useless if you can’t get to it…

[Saraide]

Heavy X to doubt on that one or confirmation bias. Ilvl lock would only increase your 60+ raids you are getting, not decrease.

Incorrect. If you are someone who didnt ilvl cheese, those people would push you towards other araids by stealing the CT spots for themselves. If someone had queued for other araids in the first place of course.

[VerdeLuck]

This is really such an incredibly fringe situation, the person who is heavily overleveled on one job vs their MSQ progression, and somehow wants to run roulettes on that job instead of other jobs in the same role.

Is it possible that instead of there being so many people in this fringe situation, people are just asking for this because they have alts at level 50 they want to duo queue with to force CT without them leveling too much from roulettes and being locked out? Something to think about.
I would have never thought people would purposefully strip off all their gear to queue either but here we are. Some people are desperate to never run anything beyond level 50 Crystal Tower and I really don't think we should cater to those people. Especially not when the queues for newer raids suffer.

[TomsYoungerBro]

Incorrect. If you are someone who didnt ilvl cheese, those people would push you towards other araids by stealing the CT spots for themselves. If someone had queued for other araids in the first place of course.

Incorrect. If you've done leveling roulette with a stack of 4 you would understand that if 24 people don't queue up a specific raid, the roulette itself will assign a random duty from the list. If 24 people are selected that did not select a particular raid (which is alot of the time due to the popularity of dailies), the ilvl cheeser would force CT.


Edit to add in other responses:

It can only do so much when the roulette is naturally skewed to favor CT, which remains the only required raids and the lowest levels ones.

Already responded to this above. The change will clearly favor the probability of getting alliance raids outside of CT

This is off topic. The problem outlined is that the roulette ilvl check doesn't take into account how you get gear. A player can easily outlevel the MSQ, which tends to limit gearing options. This creates a problem where a player can lock themselves out of the roulette, which is bad design. That is what people are trying to get fixed.
This doesn't solve the problem. The ilvl system is still bad design that can lock players out of content. They shouldn't have to spend money on gear they don't need, if they even have the money. There is also no guarantee that a player knows where to get gear anyway.
Instead of blindly trying to shoot down legitimate objections, why not at least try to see the glaring issues with the ilvl check?

It is not bad design when you can literally use the MB to buy gear? The game already gives these players that want to continually do AR roulette a viable solution. "They shouldn't have to spend money on gear they don't need". You don't need to do AR roulette, but if you want to, there is the MB . There is no issue with the ilvl check change. It is working as intended, and the whining from certain parts of the playerbase is proving that.

Except this is when the crafted gear becomes upgradable and may actually rise in value, making it even harder to obtain. You're also assuming that player have nothing else to spend gil on.

Then buy it right before the patch? It's not like this gear hasn't been out there for almost 20 weeks or anything lmao.

[Toutatis]

This is really such an incredibly fringe situation, the person who is heavily overleveled on one job vs their MSQ progression, and somehow wants to run roulettes on that job instead of other jobs in the same role.

Is it possible that instead of there being so many people in this fringe situation, people are just asking for this because they have alts at level 50 they want to duo queue with to force CT without them leveling too much from roulettes and being locked out? Something to think about.
I would have never thought people would purposefully strip off all their gear to queue either but here we are. Some people are desperate to never run anything beyond level 50 Crystal Tower and I really don't think we should cater to those people. Especially not when the queues for newer raids suffer.

It’s not fringe at all. Many people in my EU fc are affected by this, especially new players. Running ARs used to be a fun FC activity that anyone lvl 50+ could join. People should be able to play the job they want.

The proposed solution of taking both iLvl and MSQ progress into account does not cater to people who used to iLvl cheese. Besides, you’ve got players in 660 gear with only CT unlocked.

[PyurBlue]

This is really such an incredibly fringe situation, the person who is heavily overleveled on one job vs their MSQ progression, and somehow wants to run roulettes on that job instead of other jobs in the same role.

Yes, the oh so rare situation where a Road to X boosted new character is tens of levels beyond the MSQ. So rare that it came up in NN just yesterday. And imagine such people queuing for content in a game they pay money for, in a way that they enjoy.

Putting all that aside, even if we just assumed without reason that this never happens, nothing changes. The ilvl restriction was still badly implemented, and fixing it doesn't have to involve creating problems for anyone else. You may not care very much for the quality of the game, but that thankfully isn't a universal opinion.

Is it possible that instead of there being so many people in this fringe situation, people are just asking for this because they have alts at level 50 they want to duo queue with to force CT without them leveling too much from roulettes and being locked out? Something to think about.
I would have never thought people would purposefully strip off all their gear to queue either but here we are. Some people are desperate to never run anything beyond level 50 Crystal Tower and I really don't think we should cater to those people. Especially not when the queues for newer raids suffer.

Why are you so obsessed with some kind of petty revenge, to the point where you'd rather actively hurt the game than consider improving it. You do realize how backwards that is don't you? SE tried to control roulette queueing with an unintentionally flawed system that biased AR roulette toward CT, and then also allowed player to influence the roulette outcomes. While both of these things may have been unintentional, nothing here was against the rules of the game. A proper fix would involve catering to everyone, not trying to punish people who were enjoying their game the wrong way, at least according to you.

One such fix is separating CT from the rest of the raids, and yes it would give the people favoring that content what they want. Not that anyone should care since it also satisfies the wants of the other side that never want to see CT again, and let's admit it, it's much better at that than the current solution as it would actually allow roulette access with a 0% chance of CT. Funny how you ignore that.

Incorrect. If you've done leveling roulette with a stack of 4 you would understand that if 24 people don't queue up a specific raid, the roulette itself will assign a random duty from the list itself. If 24 people are selected that did not select a particular raid (which is alot of the time due to the popularity of dailies), the ilvl cheeser would force CT.

You're not accounting for when people sign up for raids [other than CT] specifically which was mentioned in the original post.

[VerdeLuck]

It’s not fringe at all. Many people in my EU fc are affected by this, especially new players. Running ARs used to be a fun FC activity that anyone lvl 50+ could join. People should be able to play the job they want.

The proposed solution of taking both iLvl and MSQ progress into account does not cater to people who used to iLvl cheese. Besides, you’ve got players in 660 gear with only CT unlocked.

Factoring in MSQ progress creates a new cheese where someone leaves an alt at 50 pre-heavensward and just queues with it to force CT. Under this current system the people who want to do that are at least forced to level a new alt to beat ARR or gear it up if they do that too much and it hits 60+.

[PyurBlue]

Factoring in MSQ progress creates a new cheese where someone leaves an alt at 50 and just queues with it to force CT. Under this current system the people who want to do that are at least forced to level a new alt to beat ARR or gear it up if they do that too much and it hits 60+.

Why leave your alt at 50? Just never unlock anything but CT and you're good.

Already responded to this above. The change will clearly favor the probability of getting alliance raids outside of CT

It does help in that it disallows player influence, partially, but it does nothing for the natural skewing caused by CT's unique position.

Going back to player influence, that's still not completely solved as a player can just not unlock the other raids and still force CT right now.

It is not bad design when you can literally use the MB to buy gear? The game already gives these players that want to continually do AR roulette a viable solution. "They shouldn't have to spend money on gear they don't need". You don't need to do AR roulette, but if you want to, there is the MB . There is no issue with the ilvl check change. It is working as intended, and the whining from certain parts of the playerbase is proving that.



Then buy it right before the patch? It's not like this gear hasn't been out there for almost 20 weeks or anything lmao.

The MB doesn't make this less of a problem. Players are being forced into spending gil, and exist catch up systems like poetics gear are negated. Again this is not an unsolvable problem, it's just clumsy and annoying, which is a perfectly reasonable thing to point out and ask to be improved. Saying that it's working as intended is a bit of a stretch, but again it's besides the point, and you could say the same about the old system that let people force CT - it was intended that being in worse gear influenced the outcome.

The roulette being optional doesn't really matter either. The entire game is optional. We're here because we want to be, and if someone wants to roulette they should be able to roulette without needless hassle.