What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Turtledeluxe]

We don't call out the other mass murderers because the story is happy to call them out for us. All we are asking is that it actually do the same to Venat. Her scene before we kill her wasn't that. It was basically her saying "I have done something awful" and us comforting her for it. I don't want to comfort her, I want to agree with her that she did something awful.

The game does call her out but in less impactful ways (such as by asking if she's justified directly and killing her), most likely because of the nostalgia associated with her from before they decided to turn her into an arrogant Ancient. I think the MMORPG element played a role in this decision to be totally honest. I think it's a little disingenuous though to suggest the game never tries to bait you into thinking Hydaelyn is either evil or making a mistake though-- it does it more and more as the game ages.

As for many of them not wanting or wanting to die, while it's kinda awful that you do not considered Tempered people living as we have shown that Tempering is reversible, what about the innocent people on the Shards who had to die before we got to the point where her plan might work? She knew about them. They certainly did not want to die.

I'm not sure what you're talking about. The entire tragedy of Zodiark is the massive sacrifice that had to be made. That means voluntary death. As far as people who supported his continued existence, that's pretty similar to desiring death because they had no idea tempering was reversible. And if Emet's dialogue is anything to go by, they were pretty intoxicated by him. It's not like his effects would extend to the Convocation and that's it. He would inevitably continue tempering. As far as Venat's sundering, you guys really need to get over it. The entire point of the conflict is that it's tragic and no one was right.

Your outrage entirely hinges on the game condoning her or your not having a dialogue box saying "I hate you". Is it really that serious???? The game doesn't totally condone her and they forgot your text box.

The story isn't about me and my moral pandering or ego stroking. I'd also note not only are you kind of morally judgy but not everyone interpreted the story they way you did. Most people interpreted Venat's walk through the Final Days as the original act as it happened (without the Elpis visit) so it's not viewed as "mass murder". And you may think "wow that's crazy"but did you even watch the scene...? Venat is clearly relaying what happens as though she is taken aback but willing to continue on..and to elaborate what I mean by surprised is that she knew she was sundering but I don't think she anticipated the state it put humanity in and/or prepared for the weight of the consequences.

And tbh I'm not entirely sure if the walk abstraction is a reference to the original timeline or the modified Elpis timeline, because we don't know if the MSQ is operating on a single timeline (with a time loop) or if the Elpis visit is a seperate, deviant timeline we just leave.

[Nayukhuut]

The game does call her out but in less impactful ways (such as by asking if she's justified directly and killing her), most likely because of the nostalgia associated with her from before they decided to turn her into an arrogant Ancient. I think the MMORPG element played a role in this decision to be totally honest. I think it's a little disingenuous though to suggest the game never tries to bait you into thinking Hydaelyn is either evil or making a mistake though-- it does it more and more as the game ages.


I'm not sure what you're talking about. The entire tragedy of Zodiark is the massive sacrifice that had to be made. That means voluntary death. As far as people who supported his continued existence, that's pretty similar to desiring death because they had no idea tempering was reversible. And if Emet's dialogue is anything to go by, they were pretty intoxicated by him. It's not like his effects would extend to the Convocation and that's it. He would inevitably continue tempering. As far as Venat's sundering, you guys really need to get over it. The entire point of the conflict is that it's tragic and no one was right.

Your outrage entirely hinges on the game condoning her or your not having a dialogue box saying "I hate you". Is it really that serious???? The game doesn't totally condone her and they forgot your text box.

The story isn't about me and my moral pandering or ego stroking. I'd also note not only are you kind of morally judgy but not everyone interpreted the story they way you did. Most people interpreted Venat's walk through the Final Days as the original act as it happened (without the Elpis visit) so it's not viewed as "mass murder". And you may think "wow that's crazy"but did you even watch the scene...? Venat is clearly relaying what happens as though she is taken aback but willing to continue on..and to elaborate what I mean by surprised is that she knew she was sundering but I don't think she anticipated the state it put humanity in and/or prepared for the weight of the consequences.

And tbh I'm not entirely sure if the walk abstraction is a reference to the original timeline or the modified Elpis timeline, because we don't know if the MSQ is operating on a single timeline (with a time loop) or if the Elpis visit is a seperate, deviant timeline we just leave.

The Endwalker story has made me feel like a hypocrite and had dragged me kicking and screaming out of a tale I quite enjoyed before. Asking for a dialogue box to express dissatisfaction with Venat's actions is not too much to ask. Especially since previous expansions have been fine with giving us more diverse answers in how we respond to our companions, even if the story inevitably still leads to the same dialogue.

Beyond that, the way the story had been written has basically given a moral dissonance between how we act, and what we endorse. It just seems weird that we can handwave all those lives "because they were necessary and beyond saving" one minute, and then turn around and save the 13th because everyone deserves a chance the next.

It is clear you and I will never reach consensus though, so prolly best to agree to disagree.