Square Enix should retire the relic quests with Endwalker

[VerdeLuck]

In elemenary school we had a sportfestival with prices and what not. I got a price for placing 4th, a little trophy made by students. An absolut hideous, ugly thing... but i keep it to this day because its earned. I did go to a seminar for the company i work for and at the end we had a teambuiling exercise and we all got a trophy handed because "we all are winners".... i did throw away this thing the moment i reached the parking lot of the hotel. It never reached my home, not even my car.

Endwalker relics are handouts without any meaning or purpose besides to populate the pf. Mandervill is something i love and find funny to no end but to make it mandatory is nonsense and lazy. Everything SE did in EW after 6.0 patches is recycle, repeat, stretch and reduce. I cant wait when we reach the point where relics a quest rewards are with just clicking on a NPC and thats it, done in 5 minutes. No i got one better: MOGSTATION.

Relics are normally for the collectors crowd and min/max for what ever but relics are by no stretch a good or meaningfull way to get BIS besides some special cases. Go savage and be done. So can i have my cool, exploration bling bling back ? You can craft, fish, huntrain, triple triad, etc. to youre hearts content - i want the exploration Zones and their Relics back. I love Eureka and Bozja, you can dislike it all you want but the game has your back with other stuff.

Relics have always been handouts, ARR was a handout for grinding fates for dozens of hours, HW was a handout for grinding duties for dozens of hours, SB was a handout for doing eureka for dozens of hours, SHB was a handout for doing bozja for dozens of hours.
Endwalker is no different, it just doesn't require doing one specific thing. I can earn half a relic doing all 12 paths of a variant dungeon or I can do hunt trains and do the same. It's freeing.

But lets not kid ourselves and act like relics were ever some holy thing or were ever meaningful to earn, they were a grind and a handout for casuals to catch up and have glam during an expansion.

Though I have to say the community's 180 on relics from when they were originally revealed to be manderville is very funny. In a year we went from "This is unfair why are you making me do hildbrand quests?" to "This is unfair why aren't you making me do more specific things?"

[Nebelheim]

Relics have always been handouts, ARR was a handout for grinding fates for dozens of hours, HW was a handout for grinding duties for dozens of hours, SB was a handout for doing eureka for dozens of hours, SHB was a handout for doing bozja for dozens of hours.
Endwalker is no different, it just doesn't require doing one specific thing. I can earn half a relic doing all 12 paths of a variant dungeon or I can do hunt trains and do the same. It's freeing.

But lets not kid ourselves and act like relics were ever some holy thing or were ever meaningful to earn, they were a grind and a handout for casuals to catch up and have glam during an expansion.

Though I have to say the community's 180 on relics from when they were originally revealed to be manderville is very funny. In a year we went from "This is unfair why are you making me do hildbrand quests?" to "This is unfair why aren't you making me do more specific things?"

Previous relics weren't handouts you had to work for them and actually do/run content not just your daily roulettes for 1500 tomes which most people do daily anyway. Endwalkers relics were handouts. At this point in endwalkers i would rather have the various grinds arr and heavansward relics had us do rather than what we have now. There is no grind or achievement in grinding daily roulettes for a current relic other than making it super easy to grind with poetics next expansion which will make it even easier to get. We already have tome weapons we can get for 1500 tomes and doing the normal 8 man raids for the weekly thing it drops for an equivalent ilvl weapon.

[VerdeLuck]

Previous relics weren't handouts you had to work for them and actually do/run content not just your daily roulettes for 1500 tomes which most people do daily anyway. Endwalkers relics were handouts. At this point in endwalkers i would rather have the various grinds arr and heavansward relics had us do rather than what we have now. There is no grind or achievement in grinding daily roulettes for a current relic other than making it super easy to grind with poetics next expansion which will make it even easier to get. We already have tome weapons we can get for 1500 tomes and doing the normal 8 man raids for the weekly thing it drops for an equivalent ilvl weapon.

Really? Getting a relic from doing 50 or so Fates isn't a handout but doing it through however many variant dungeon clears is suddenly no longer "working for it"? Doing a dozen or so clears of current Alliance raids is no longer working for it?
It's just laughable to say that mindless fate spam was somehow "less of a handout" or "meant anything", it's just contrarianism and MMO boomer stuff to say that old=good and new=bad.
these were never hard to do, there was never any working for it. It was an annoying grind in the past and they listened to feedback to make it less annoying.

The removal of one time steps was some of the best parts of this one as well. Having to do a grind, getting 0 reward from it other than the "right" to start another slogging grind was not fun. In the current steps they listened to feedback and there is no part where you think to yourself "this sucks why am I not getting progress towards my relics?", if you're doing level 90 content, you are getting at least some progress given towards your weapon.

[ChrysOCE]

Really? Getting a relic from doing 50 or so Fates isn't a handout but doing it through however many variant dungeon clears is suddenly no longer "working for it"? Doing a dozen or so clears of current Alliance raids is no longer working for it?
It's just laughable to say that mindless fate spam was somehow "less of a handout" or "meant anything", it's just contrarianism and MMO boomer stuff to say that old=good and new=bad.
these were never hard to do, there was never any working for it. It was an annoying grind in the past and they listened to feedback to make it less annoying.

The removal of one time steps was some of the best parts of this one as well. Having to do a grind, getting 0 reward from it other than the "right" to start another slogging grind was not fun. In the current steps they listened to feedback and there is no part where you think to yourself "this sucks why am I not getting progress towards my relics?", if you're doing level 90 content, you are getting at least some progress given towards your weapon.

Sure, I guess some people could decide to actively go out and farm variant dungeons, but that is an individual decision. I genuinely do not understand why this is so hard to understand. Being given a specific task - farm 50 FATES, clear DRN 5 times, clear Alliance Raids 4 times, obtain these specific times with GC currency or gil or 20,000 poetics, whatever the task is, it gives it meaning. You are obtaining a relic by doing a quest which then becomes an earned reward. It's a completely different thing to someone deciding, on their own, to give themselves their own individual head cannon journey to obtain their relic.

The vast majority of people are not spending their Causality tomes on anything so, when a new step releases, hey presto: you have your next relic step within a few minutes of the patch releasing. And then, if you are doing your roulettes or pvp (which you probably were going to do anyway), you can get another relic. And another. And another. There is no sense of achievement which this relic and it becomes no different to a standard tomestome weapon. Hell, the Comedy tomestome weapon is more of an earned reward, due to you having to do P12N X times and spend a limited tomestone currency on it.

[VerdeLuck]

There is no sense of achievement which this relic

This is entirely a you problem from my perspective. There is no difference in feelings of accomplishment for me between this relic and the ARR or the Shadowbringers relics. The main difference is those force me to do something boring or that I don't want to do to make progress on them, but I can choose to make my own fun with these new ones. I'm not boxed into having to do fate spam over and over whiel watching a movie because I'm bored. I'm not forced to run 180 instances of normal raids that don't even use half my kit because they're from previous expansions. If I want to run content and try to make progress on it I can.

I don't see why there's such a problem with the new ones when there is the freedom to choose what you want to do to fulfil it. If you want to do it the "efficient", but boring way of spamming hunt trains over and over to get tomes quickly, no one is going to stop you, but you chose to meeet the criteria that way.
This whole "earned reward" and "sense of achievement" just seems so weird, it's just being used to try to act like something that was never particularly hard should be harder just to satisfy a sense of rarity for what is by all intents and purposes, a casual catchup weapon that doubles as glam.

[Absimiliard]

This whole "earned reward" and "sense of achievement" just seems so weird, it's just being used to try to act like something that was never particularly hard should be harder just to satisfy a sense of rarity for what is by all intents and purposes, a casual catchup weapon that doubles as glam.

The current weapon is a case of getting something for virtually nothing. The amount of effort you put into getting one is so low that even their present gimped state is honestly too strong. At least the crafted weapons require you to either make it yourself or shell out some gil. The relics presently equate to little more than "here's a kinda crappy functionally free weapon for otherwise useless tomestones you can accrue passively just by doing content you would have anyway."

[Zairava]

This is entirely a you problem from my perspective. There is no difference in feelings of accomplishment for me between this relic and the ARR or the Shadowbringers relics. The main difference is those force me to do something boring or that I don't want to do to make progress on them, but I can choose to make my own fun with these new ones. I'm not boxed into having to do fate spam over and over whiel watching a movie because I'm bored. I'm not forced to run 180 instances of normal raids that don't even use half my kit because they're from previous expansions. If I want to run content and try to make progress on it I can.

I don't see why there's such a problem with the new ones when there is the freedom to choose what you want to do to fulfil it. If you want to do it the "efficient", but boring way of spamming hunt trains over and over to get tomes quickly, no one is going to stop you, but you chose to meeet the criteria that way.
This whole "earned reward" and "sense of achievement" just seems so weird, it's just being used to try to act like something that was never particularly hard should be harder just to satisfy a sense of rarity for what is by all intents and purposes, a casual catchup weapon that doubles as glam.

It's the same in reverse. To us, you finding the content and relic grinds we enjoyed is a you problem. You not finding the accomplishment in those is a you problem. You finding it boring is a you problem.

I don't give a rat's ass if they give people a tome option to get them, I care that it's the actual only method. You can have your method of acquisition and we can have ours.

[VerdeLuck]

I don't give a rat's ass if they give people a tome option to get them, I care that it's the actual only method. You can have your method of acquisition and we can have ours.

Apparently you do because you keep saying it "means nothing" if people are allowed to use tomes or being able to pick the means to complete them.

[Rychu]

It's the same in reverse. To us, you finding the content and relic grinds we enjoyed is a you problem. You not finding the accomplishment in those is a you problem. You finding it boring is a you problem.

I don't give a rat's ass if they give people a tome option to get them, I care that it's the actual only method. You can have your method of acquisition and we can have ours.

See this makes the most sense to me. Sometimes people just don't want to farm the content, which is fine. The problem is that if tomes are our only options then there is no community around the relic weapons. Say what you will about Eureka and Bozja but they created a pocket of the community where people were able to spend time together and hang out and make memories. Yeah maybe you'll get bored of doing DR over and over, but you'll get bored anyways doing lvl 90 dungeons over and over. And at least when you meet the same faces and get to chatting with them then you start to have a lot more fun. Oh you don't want to talk to people and just want the shiny weapons? Sure fine use the tomes then. Just remember that this is an MMO and it's not a crazy thing to have people play together to earn a reward

[ChrysOCE]

This is entirely a you problem from my perspective. There is no difference in feelings of accomplishment for me between this relic and the ARR or the Shadowbringers relics. The main difference is those force me to do something boring or that I don't want to do to make progress on them, but I can choose to make my own fun with these new ones. I'm not boxed into having to do fate spam over and over whiel watching a movie because I'm bored. I'm not forced to run 180 instances of normal raids that don't even use half my kit because they're from previous expansions. If I want to run content and try to make progress on it I can.

I don't see why there's such a problem with the new ones when there is the freedom to choose what you want to do to fulfil it. If you want to do it the "efficient", but boring way of spamming hunt trains over and over to get tomes quickly, no one is going to stop you, but you chose to meeet the criteria that way.
This whole "earned reward" and "sense of achievement" just seems so weird, it's just being used to try to act like something that was never particularly hard should be harder just to satisfy a sense of rarity for what is by all intents and purposes, a casual catchup weapon that doubles as glam.

It was never casual to begin with though? The steps themselves may not have been hard to do, but it still took a committed effort to complete. THIS relic is casual.

An earned rewards and sense of achievement is a pretty standard thing in any game? Do you honestly think it's normal and ok, that you can obtain your next step in a relic, within moments of the patch dropping? You unlock the quest, you buy the 3 items with your already capped Causalities. Is that really great design?