Bard buffs

[Post]

I feel like BRD is to DNC as RDM is to SMN, and that's why it's not played as much. I really don't think the average player looks at parse data to make a job determination, if anything they just ask the community and the community is pretty bearish on BRD cuz of its wacky job identity and it feeling like garbage to play wherever you have downtime because your songs are so impossible to reorder and yet necessary to align with the Almighty 2 Minute Meta, including between dungeon trash packs.

Can't argue that they seem to buff or nerf jobs based on things other than their damage performance a lot of times, though. Especially mid expansion, because they hate adding new things for jobs mid expansion if they can avoid it, they almost always limit their changes to 'numbers up or down', regardless of what the actual problem is.

[Valence]

I do not agree with that hypothesis, for the simple reason that BRD hasn't change fundamentally in structure since Stormblood that introduced the song system and repertoire, and it used to be played very heavily by everybody, be it casual players or raiders. It was already a pain to line up in dungeons and what it has gained in pain (longer songs) it has also gained in flexibility (gauge charging up between pulls which wastes songs a lot less, and you end up essentially letting your songs cycle freely rather than try to stagger and realign them all the time). If anything, BRD used to be a lot messier the more you go back in time (crit procs and no control over RA procs for barrage, then dot procs, etc).

It's possible people were more attached to the old procs and dots, though, but I have a hard time imagining that's such a crucial factor, especially for more lightcore raiders or casual players (if anything it made the job easier and more predictable/approachable, even if still finicky to optimize).

Honestly though, beats me why. I'm starting to suspect it's just because of staleness and how the job has been very similar for 3 expansions now.

[Phia]

It's possible people were more attached to the old procs and dots, though, but I have a hard time imagining that's such a crucial factor, especially for more lightcore raiders or casual players (if anything it made the job easier and more predictable/approachable, even if still finicky to optimize).

This line here is why I am a former Bard main. What attracted me to Bard in the first place was the support offered, and the dynamic gameplay (procs and dots as you say). Stormblood Bard understood and leaned into this. Shadowbringers and Endwalker Bard smoothed off all the edges, which you're likely correct about making the class more approachable, but also took away what had me playing it in the first place.

I also think the theory that the devs buffed Bard specifically to try and boost the number of people playing it is a good one. After all, if the DPS numbers were fine before the buff, and the percentage of people playing Bards are low, it's a fairly easy conclusion to reach. What I'm interested in is, if the representation doesn't go up, maybe that means that many of these former Bards are like me, and dropped the class because of gameplay, not numbers. It might even be the sign that gets the devs to take notice and bring back some of the complexity that once defined the job.

[Lucan_Astral]

This line here is why I am a former Bard main. What attracted me to Bard in the first place was the support offered, and the dynamic gameplay (procs and dots as you say). Stormblood Bard understood and leaned into this. Shadowbringers and Endwalker Bard smoothed off all the edges, which you're likely correct about making the class more approachable, but also took away what had me playing it in the first place.

I also think the theory that the devs buffed Bard specifically to try and boost the number of people playing it is a good one. After all, if the DPS numbers were fine before the buff, and the percentage of people playing Bards are low, it's a fairly easy conclusion to reach. What I'm interested in is, if the representation doesn't go up, maybe that means that many of these former Bards are like me, and dropped the class because of gameplay, not numbers. It might even be the sign that gets the devs to take notice and bring back some of the complexity that once defined the job.

I agree with this as a former Bard main.

I'm really hoping(coping?) they consider a rework and really think about what players actually liked about the class. The stats don't lie, DNC is picked over twice as often as BRD in high level duties, there's clearly something fundamentally wrong that SE has to look at. You can buff/nerf the numbers as much as you want, but if there's an underlying issue with the class, it won't help at all.

[Rithy255]

I agree with this as a former Bard main.

I'm really hoping(coping?) they consider a rework and really think about what players actually liked about the class. The stats don't lie, DNC is picked over twice as often as BRD in high level duties, there's clearly something fundamentally wrong that SE has to look at. You can buff/nerf the numbers as much as you want, but if there's an underlying issue with the class, it won't help at all.

I think Phys ranged needs to be semi support based to function better in reality.

As Phys ranged you can't really have them do high DPS compared to melee or casters like BLM, because of how you can attack from any range with no cast times. (even if EW design seems to want to make it as easy as possible to keep melee uptime), So adding actual benefits to phys ranged outside of just damage seems like the right way to go.

I think when Bard got their heal boost changed into aoe (and mch got their mitigation) it was a step in the right direction, but I think fights should Lean into bringing a Phys ranged more, they should get more interesting utilities and abilities, I just think fights need to design those abilities in mind (aswell as tank support tools, otherwise it will give healers nothing to do).

I'd kind like scholars speed boost on bard (ignoring the out of combat speed boost) Maybe give their single target esuna thingy a additional effect like a decently strong single target mit, Unsure what else they could add with *current design* but leaning more into support aspects is what I really want on Phys ranged in general to have some powerful utility, Obviously we need to actually make raid wide and out going damage more of a thing, But I love skills that aren't just "click do damage or click and buff damage" they're boring at this point. I think encounters really need to be looked at, they need to hopefully make fights lean on allowing utility abilities to be more useful.

[Valence]

I agree with this as a former Bard main.

I'm really hoping(coping?) they consider a rework and really think about what players actually liked about the class. The stats don't lie, DNC is picked over twice as often as BRD in high level duties, there's clearly something fundamentally wrong that SE has to look at. You can buff/nerf the numbers as much as you want, but if there's an underlying issue with the class, it won't help at all.

In my opinion DNC is a flawed comparison point for the exact same reason that SMN would be a flawed comparison variable when compared to RDM or BLM.

DNC is exactly like SMN, it's been simplified and watered down so much from the subtleties that it had that it's the path of least resistance by FAR in the rphys department. It was already before in ShB, but closer to MCH back then, because you still had as a DNC to account for proc overwriting with Flourish (and Sabre Dance optimization), not drifting standard step, and melee phases. It wasn't much, and like MCH you could still pull solid numbers even when just not caring about this, but it was still something that has been completely removed. DNC today is no different than SMN but for the procs, and the only arguably more difficult part of the job is the semi variable structure of the burst phase, which is the only part of the job that still requires some brain cells.

Therefore it's no surprise that 50% of the rphys charts are people just picking up DNC. In a way it's not that different from SMN vs RDM or BLM yeah.

What I find more interesting is to compare BRD to MCH actually, because they 1) don't share a similar role and structure in party with party buffs and 2) don't share a similar proc based structure. MCH, while still with a ludicrously low skill ceiling (or at least damage ceiling when optimizing), still offers at least some kind of execution to follow unlike DNC that can just press whatever button lights up and be fine.

[Valence]

I think Phys ranged needs to be semi support based to function better in reality.

As Phys ranged you can't really have them do high DPS compared to melee or casters like BLM, because of how you can attack from any range with no cast times. (even if EW design seems to want to make it as easy as possible to keep melee uptime), So adding actual benefits to phys ranged outside of just damage seems like the right way to go.

I think when Bard got their heal boost changed into aoe (and mch got their mitigation) it was a step in the right direction, but I think fights should Lean into bringing a Phys ranged more, they should get more interesting utilities and abilities, I just think fights need to design those abilities in mind (aswell as tank support tools, otherwise it will give healers nothing to do).

I'd kind like scholars speed boost on bard (ignoring the out of combat speed boost) Maybe give their single target esuna thingy a additional effect like a decently strong single target mit, Unsure what else they could add with *current design* but leaning more into support aspects is what I really want on Phys ranged in general to have some powerful utility, Obviously we need to actually make raid wide and out going damage more of a thing, But I love skills that aren't just "click do damage or click and buff damage" they're boring at this point. I think encounters really need to be looked at, they need to hopefully make fights lean on allowing utility abilities to be more useful.

They can't do anything for support with their current design because their current battle system had made sure they removed all of those avenues for ShB. This is why we have party role bonus (1%) since ShB came out, to ensure people still take up the role into parties, no more, no less.

Don't get me wrong I'd love for them to move back to a more RPG based battle system, but I really don't think they'll do that, ever.

[Rithy255]

They can't do anything for support with their current design because their current battle system had made sure they removed all of those avenues for ShB. This is why we have party role bonus (1%) since ShB came out, to ensure people still take up the role into parties, no more, no less.

Don't get me wrong I'd love for them to move back to a more RPG based battle system, but I really don't think they'll do that, ever.

They should Move back to that design, It's a case of they likely won't, The current SHB now EW design is just so uninteresting for any job that isn't just a pure DPS (Even then DPS is getting worse with things such as 2 minute raid windows).

Party role bonuses feels kind of unfair, a role like phys ranged shouldn't only serve the purpose of "well you bring 1% damage extra by existing that's only why we bring you!" that's just a really flawed design choice, I think the 1% buff is fine as it serves a purpose of making sure you'll always want to bring a role type, but at the same time I think they really need to consider Phys ranged being something that brings a lot more to the table then just the 1% buff.

I feel like DT is either going to be make or break for me personally, If we're getting more of the same with EW design I think I'll start only playing for story, I've been uninterested in playing a lot lately. I just hope they start to realise that the current design doesn't fully work for anyone wanting more then just damage buttons, I feel like a middle ground between stormblood and shadowbringers would have been pretty perfect for new and hardcore players.

DT is either going to have drastic changes (for better or worse) or just double down more on what was started by SHB, Now EW design. I'm not saying they're going to be struggling for players, but clearly I know some people are getting fed up with EW Job design.