A better idea for dungeons besides speed run.

[SniperRifle]

Pretty sure the community said speed runs take no skill and is the easy mode way of gaming.
And I'm pretty sure the logic in this thread is, if do anything fast, you can't enjoy it.

It doesn't matter if you do something fast or slow, doing the same thing hundreds of times will never be fun, which is the issue we're having with basically all content in 14 right now. It gets old, quick.

[Enfarious]

How bout not having to run around and collect things to unlock magic gates, and instead:
You have to pass a mini-boss at each gate, let's say in this hypothetical 4 gates/mini-bosses leading to the real deal.
For each mini-boss you get 1 chest, but each mini-boss has a catch.

First mini-boss absorbs magic attacks. You'll need those melee DDs now.
Second is immune to physical attacks. A couple mages will be a must.
Third is immune to blunt damage but weak to slashing. MRD/WAR gets it's shot.
Fourth is immune to slashing but weak to piercing. Hard to tank since you can't generate enmity through dmg, but Cover ...

Add to that that job changes are locked inside the instance, no more cookie cutter groups.
You could speed run or not, since each chest is from a mini-boss and then 1 from the boss clearing the dungeon is the only part that's actually important, not how fast you do or don't do it.

On a side note, I would never ask for easy, challenge is what makes it fun, but figuring out what party setup makes it go fastest and tunning past everything isn't challenging/fun it's boring/repetitive. Higher drop rates for the sake of not having to run the same dungeon 50k times isn't easy it's sane. Varied ways to get through a dungeon so that you can change your plan of attack depending on your party setup is dynamic and requires thinking, I like to think I like to be thrown challenges that require more than just change which set of spells I'm casting. Variety is the spice of life but aside from appearances the dungeon scheme we have now offers very little variety/actual challenge/party dynamics.

As has been said in a number of other threads, time sink != challenge && cookie cutter speed runs != challenge && 0.001% drop rates != challenge, 2 of the 3 are just ways to keep people doing more of the same aka time sinks, the middle is a way to get everyone to be able to follow the same simple instructions that other groups found to work. Not unlike the cookie cutter leveling areas of FFXI that were always so crowded back in the day, it wasn't that they were the only places to grind, but rather that it's what everyone before has done so rather than think I'm just going to follow them. It's not bad to follow others leads, but making the most successful path to victory so singular that everyone feels encouraged to just do more of the same is something of a cop out. Having more than one way to achieve the same reward, or different rewards of equivalent value for taking different paths makes for at least a bit of variety, so your 300th run can feel like it's only your 50th doing it "this" way.

[Griss]

I am also against speed runs being the only way to get the last chest to spawn.

Sure keep it as a condition for it, but i think the majority of the people here are talking a second or possibly third condition to be added to it. Ie that chest was the speed/additional nm/puzzle chest it would not be that big of a deal.

[Enfarious]

I am also against speed runs being the only way to get the last chest to spawn.

Sure keep it as a condition for it, but i think the majority of the people here are talking a second or possibly third condition to be added to it. Ie that chest was the speed/additional nm/puzzle chest it would not be that big of a deal.

That's the one...

[Shiggysonson]

What I believe is the best way to make the 5th chest drop is by performing certain requirements within the dungeon to obtain it. If you can make a requirement to get the 4th chest by killing Marshall after Princess, why can't something similar be applied to Chimera or Mizer's Mistress? Only a quick idea and example, you could do something like "You need to hit Chimera with a pit 5 times to obtain the tier 5 chest.". Players do not want to rush through your content SE, they want to enjoy it. People want to go as jobs they want to be, not one that can be done the fastest.

I want to enjoy your content SE, Cutter's Cry and Aurum Vale are real fun dungeons and very creative, I don't want to rush through it. Maybe an achievement is nice for speed run, but it shouldn't be the concept of obtaining the best gear.

Ever since my LS has been able to perform speed runs, I don't enjoy the dungeon like I use to and only think to myself what I said above.

I would like to hear the community's thoughts about this, rather positive or negative. Again I do apologize if this subject or idea has already been thought of.

I do think they should try something else with their dungeons other than speed runs because they've done it for all four dungeons, but if they replace it with something easier than speed runs, I would rather have it the way it is. I know it was just an example of a possible requirement for the 5th chest, but hitting chimera five times with sandtraps seems way too easy. I want something that can't be done with a pick up group.

Speed run is a pretty good requirement imo because it requires the group to understand the dungeon, and it requires the players to be pretty good. I don't see a problem in having a special reward for the groups that accomplish this.

If the group's main goal is to take time enjoying the dungeon without job stacking, they have the option to do so. They just may not get the speed chest. If the group's main goal is to get loot, wouldn't that group want to finish the dungeon runs as fast as possible anyway? And if the group wants both best loot and enjoyment, find a way to do it. I mean wasn't it already shown that the AV speed run can be done with one of every job in the group?

There are people that like the speed runs, and there are people that don't. One possible solution that may keep both groups happy is to add a different requirement for the fifth chest like completely incapacitating chimera (a way to stop job stacking), and add a sixth chest for getting all 5 chests in 25 minutes. Have the sixth chest drop a token used to purchase darklight gear similar to totems and nut charms.

[Soukyuu]

They really should do something about the monotony of our current content. Speed run being a condition to get all the chests is just silly. Especially coupled with low drop rates, of course people are going to speed through the dungeon.

They need different conditions in every dungeon, puzzles, multiple endings, random dungeon layout. While it's not possible with our current engine, they better give us something different come 2.0...

[Velhart]

They really should do something about the monotony of our current content. Speed run being a condition to get all the chests is just silly. Especially coupled with low drop rates, of course people are going to speed through the dungeon.

They need different conditions in every dungeon, puzzles, multiple endings, random dungeon layout. While it's not possible with our current engine, they better give us something different come 2.0...

It would be nice if it was setup differently in each dungeon. I really like how Toto-Rak was setup, I wonder why SE can't make a more difficult version of this in the higher level dungeons.

[DeadRiser]

I hate class stacking, so I am all for ANY other challenging way to get the 5th chest.

[Klive]

Honestly, between speed runs, class stacking, and mid-raid class swapping; raids feel more like a grind and a chore. Something needs to be done because as of right now, most raids are not fun for me. Grinding Dungeons in WoW with a content finder was more fun and I quit that game. I don't even feel like an adventurer when I run instances, more like a shape shifter that changes to fill a need.

[Wincy]

Well I'll just throw in my agreement with almost every single other person in this thread so far: speed runs are a kind of lame mechanic. Agreed with everyone else that as an achievement, sure that's cool, but as the only means of getting the best shot at your loot, no this is no good! More dynamic dungeons, longer dungeons (possibly with save points, love that idea), and also personally I support longer lockouts with higher drop rates. Get on this SE!