Length MSQ from all the expansions - it is getting insane

[RitsukoSonoda]

Eh? Are we still going on about the whole idea of purchasing a game then paying a monthly fee to keep the account active just so you can avoid actually playing the game?

[Volgia]

FXIV is a Final Fantasy game and a story-based JRPG first, and an MMO second. Always has been, and it's not a secret. The MSQ is not a "problem" that needs to be solved, it's THE GAME. I get that people like different aspects, like hardcore endgame raids or crafting or whatever, but those are niche activities and not the main focus. You're never going to be able to JUST raid, or JUST craft, or JUST do PvP, by default. You have to do the story, that's what the game's about. That's what gives context and narrative meaning to anything your character does. I'm not saying those other things aren't important, but they aren't primary.

Maybe you're only interested in a certain 5-10 percent of the game, and don't care about the rest. Okay..? Maybe you don't like FFVIII and only want to play Triple Triad. Maybe you don't like FFX and only want to play Blitzball. Should you get to click a button to skip the entire game and create an endgame save file, just so you can do those specific things? Or should you maybe, I dunno, find some other CCG or sports title and give that a try rather than expecting a fantasy RPG to cater to your specific demands?

I think it's surprising people have this take because to me the story is great but the way it's delivered through thousand of cutscenes is boring. You barely interact with your environment, you barely are in control of your character or abilities. It's just two characters talking on a screen, if it's focus is the story then why do they deliver it this way like if it was a visual novel? When I played this game for the first time I was _dying_ to do the dungeon, I was _dying_ to do the trial. It's like this every expansion, yeah, Alisae bullying Alphanaud is fine and all, but I want the adventure, to face interesting enemies and explore interesting parts of the world, why is there less of that in the game, and more of me just watching a movie play?

As for "This is JRPG first, an MMO second" it's kind of ballsy to claim that on a live-service game that charges you 15$ with barelyany interesting and repeatable content. The story being good is great, but the other part of the game has to be just as good.

[Atelier-Bagur]

This is what I don't get about you lore lovers, why do you get offended over people wanting to go straight to current content? Make the MSQ optional, square enix gets the players who don't give a shit about it and you get the players who do. It's a win-win and making the grind extra boring and tedious because "THATS HOW FF GAMES ARE!!!!!!!" is a childish reason.

The same with screaming to just buy a level boost. I'd wager new players more interested in endgame would rather learn how to play through naturally leveling instead of learning who all the useless scions are and what boohoos they need to fix.




Where did I say to delete the MSQ? You even quoted me and still lied about what I said, lmao. *Make the MSQ optional*, as you level you unlock the dungeons/raids that you'd typically unlock while trudging through msq. This prevents new players from being gate kept by garbage so they can play with friends faster.

Why do you care so much about new players skipping story they are not interested in?

Story skipping is already monetized. You really think theyre just going to go back on it and give the skip away for free?

Besides youll still have to chug through whatever current expansion anyway. And besides trying to sell new players for its endgame is just so funny to me. The endgame of this game is horrible. No satisfying substance to the raids, no good retention whatsoever. People who believe otherwise are delusionial.

[Jojoya]

no good retention whatsoever.

If it has no good retention, then why are there so many players that have been playing the game for 6-10 years?

Clearly there are a lot of players satisfied by the game or they would have long since quit. Perhaps you're the delusional one if you think every player is quitting as soon as they get caught up on the MSQ.

[Tiramu]

You should definitely get option to story skip on alts, once one of your character finishes story. But I doubt that's ever happening, there's some nice money for SE in selling story skips.

And I'm for more voice acting. It's not-a-cheap AAA with main focus on story, there are no excuses for having only some 1/3 of story voice acted, especially when much less profitable games like GW2 have voice acted everything including player (5 races * 2 genders = 10 VAs just for player character) and even just random NPCs randomly chatting in overworld.

This is fair though, it could be more alt friendly. Adding the ability to MSQ skip to the point your main is at has value.

[Atelier-Bagur]

If it has no good retention, then why are there so many players that have been playing the game for 6-10 years?

Clearly there are a lot of players satisfied by the game or they would have long since quit. Perhaps you're the delusional one if you think every player is quitting as soon as they get caught up on the MSQ.

Simple, because of investment. The game for all its shortcomings in MMO design succesfully delivers in making you care about it, from your own character, to its story and to its simplicity and easeness in its systems

Its like the equivalent of gaming junk food and the consumption of it starts from the beginning, rather than the end.

Tell me, can any one of you seriously try to convince somebody that having a few or so boss fights and a simple 24 man raid that finishes very quickly in a patch cycle that usually doesnt keep them hooked for a full week is enticing to convince them to cough up a monthly sub for it?

I dont think so, and I believe its a cruel joke on them. Its better to be blunt and tell them the truth that the reason why FFXIV is due to the player having to put the effort for that investment, not the otherway around.

[PyurBlue]

And besides trying to sell new players for its endgame is just so funny to me. The endgame of this game is horrible. No satisfying substance to the raids, no good retention whatsoever. People who believe otherwise are delusionial.

You can hold any opinion you want, but remember it's just yours and its only an opinion. I very clearly remember my time as a new player it was not the story that got me through the game, it was raiding. Without the end game, I would have never finished ARR. I also know I'm not alone, and I've even seen new players quit because the path to the end is so long both in terms of MSQ and the slow leveling of jobs that lack complexity for the first 50-60 levels.

Having the MSQ as a requirement doesn't do FF14 any favors.

[Volgia]

Simple, because of investment. The game for all its shortcomings in MMO design succesfully delivers in making you care about it, from your own character, to its story and to its simplicity and easeness in its systems

Its like the equivalent of gaming junk food and the consumption of it starts from the beginning, rather than the end.

Tell me, can any one of you seriously try to convince somebody that having a few or so boss fights and a simple 24 man raid that finishes very quickly in a patch cycle that usually doesnt keep them hooked for a full week is enticing to convince them to cough up a monthly sub for it?

I dont think so, and I believe its a cruel joke on them. Its better to be blunt and tell them the truth that the reason why FFXIV is due to the player having to put the effort for that investment, not the otherway around.

The retetion I get with my friends is like... Expansion wise = 2 to 3 months. uneven patch: 2 weeks, even patch: 1.5 months in average, so mostly just raid logging.

[Atelier-Bagur]

You can hold any opinion you want, but remember it's just yours and its only an opinion. I very clearly remember my time as a new player it was not the story that got me through the game, it was raiding. Without the end game, I would have never finished ARR. I also know I'm not alone, and I've even seen new players quit because the path to the end is so long both in terms of MSQ and the slow leveling of jobs that lack complexity for the first 50-60 levels.

Having the MSQ as a requirement doesn't do FF14 any favors.

There are better games that have better raiding experiences to be honest.

Also this doesnt apply to everyone obviously but most people who play it, its because of that investment. The sad thing, people who get into the actual endgame find it disappointing and bitter and I had this happen to some friends of mine who wanted to just story skip and get to the raiding and they found out how little and shallow it was. Thats why I cant ever recommend the game based on the raiding alone because theres not much to it to keep your around and the game is so story centric on literally everything. Obviously you being an outlier here but not the norm.

If that wasnt the case, they wouldnt have bothered with putting so many cutscenes on everything.

[PyurBlue]

There are better games that have better raiding experiences to be honest.

That's always going to be a subjective topic, and even if people agree with it, that doesn't mean they can't treat FF14 as a raiding game.

Also this doesnt apply to everyone obviously but most people who play it, its because of that investment. The sad thing, people who get into the actual endgame find it disappointing and bitter and I had this happen to some friends of mine who wanted to just story skip and get to the raiding and they found out how little and shallow it was. Thats why I cant ever recommend the game based on the raiding alone because theres not much to it to keep your around and the game is so story centric on literally everything. Obviously you being an outlier here but not the norm.

If that wasnt the case, they wouldnt have bothered with putting so many cutscenes on everything.

I'm not willing to guess on how many are drawn to what without numbers, but even if it's true that most people aren't playing for the endgame I don't think those that do can just be dismissed as outliers. If someone were to ask for advice on how to approach the game then ideally you would try to figure out what interests them and not immediately shepherd them to what you consider the most popular part of the game. That's just setting up some percentage of people for disappointment, just as only suggesting to play for raids and rushing to level cap would be setting up those interested in the story for disappointment. We can, and should, try to cater to both groups at once as well as the many other types of players that participate in the game.