What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Theodric]

the problem is we are the good guys that is the story everything we do is good, heck when we became the warrior of darkness we stayed the good guy even though the ones before us were bad guys.

people aren't playing to be bad guys so anyone who wants to be the bad guy will always be unhappy.

It's not a case of wanting to play as a 'bad guy', though. Furthermore whether a character or faction is in fact 'good' or 'bad' is largely subjective in many situations. It's easy for the characters who are lucky enough to be specifically empowered and revived if they die to go around doing good whereas pretty much every 'bad guy' turns out to not have that luxury and the stakes are higher, so their hands inevitably and understandably get bloody and dirty in the process. Yet I'd note that darker elements to characters have proven to be fairly popular in games where they're available. I wasn't referring to playable characters, though - I was specifically referring to variety within the core cast and I don't think there's a reason why every character the player interacts with needs to be pushed as pure and righteous. With Endwalker making the so called 'good guys' knowingly complicit in and praising Venat's act of genocide and racial replacement, it's rather difficult for me to take such artificial limitations seriously.

Not in the least when other MMO's, such as WoW and ESO, have no issue allowing players to interact with a broader variety of character archetypes - and even play them themselves, if they so wish.

[Musashidon]

Not in the least when other MMO's, such as WoW and ESO, have no issue allowing players to interact with a broader variety of character archetypes - and even play them themselves, if they so wish.

but this isn't wow or eso? 14 is a story about us the good guys always doing good and being good. if you feel at one point or time we weren't that's good if you ask me cause that would be the whole point in a story.

but in the actual game world we will always be good and our decisions will always be perceived as the right ones as that's what the game is about.

[Theodric]

but this isn't wow or eso? 14 is a story about us the good guys always doing good and being good. if you feel at one point or time we weren't that's good if you ask me cause that would be the whole point in a story.

but in the actual game world we will always be good and our decisions will always be perceived as the right ones as that's what the game is about.

The game, by its own admission, heavily takes inspiration from WoW and various other games. To the point of outright doing crossovers with completely different franchises altogether at times.

There's many different potential routes that the writers could take moving forward and the game can preach what it likes, no player has any obligation to perceive anything a particular way or even agree with it. Admittedly I don't really self insert in this game to the point many other FFXIV players seem to. Even as a roleplayer, I gave up on trying to roleplay in this game on the basis of the player being granted so little agency or meaningful dialogue choices.

I'm not sure how any of that equals an inability to have characters with more varied personalities to appeal to a broader variety of personal tastes, though.

The single player Final Fantasy games have no issue providing a main cast with more variety in terms of personalities and belief systems and it's perfectly possible for a story to bring a band of characters from very different backgrounds together to work alongside each other for the sake of a shared goal.

[Musashidon]

The single player Final Fantasy games have no issue providing a main cast with more variety in terms of personalities and belief systems and it's perfectly possible for a story to bring a band of characters from very different backgrounds together to work alongside each other for the sake of a shared goal.

i didn't say it wasn't possible i just said that wasn't the story ff14 was giving. ff14 is the simple you are a good guy and your teammates are the same.

heck the new dawntrail story is going to be chucked up to one side gets swindled by the bad guy and when you defeat him and put the ruler who sides with you morally in charge they will see the error in their ways. as that is how ff14 works story wise, the best out come besides that happening is the bad guy turns his thoughts around and lets the other guy lead for some weird ambiguous reason. but those are roughly the two options that will happen.

if someone likes a story like that or not i can't decide for people but that's how simple the story works. maybe just maybe someone may die since we havent had a scion death since what papalymo? as re-killing off minfilia doesn't count.

[Theodric]

Well, that certainly wasn't the impression I got back in the days of ARR when the City States were portrayed as all having major skeletons within their closets - and some of them still do to this very day despite the attempts to heavily sanitise everything. It's a problem with a game having so many different writers involved in the creative process. It results in very mixed messages being sent across the board.

After playing FFXVI I don't doubt that Yoshi-P thinks he's telling a story about a hero doing heroic things but he loses me when the heroes end up complicit in the same horrific events they're calling out their opposition for. I got into this game in the first place precisely because of how much Yoshi-P praised the Ivalice games and so I expected we'd see more in the way of Ivalice style intrigue and depth.

At the end of the day it's an MMO so there's ample room to tell a wide variety of stories and I'm fairly easy to please if they do as much.

[Xeronia]

but this isn't wow or eso? 14 is a story about us the good guys always doing good and being good. if you feel at one point or time we weren't that's good if you ask me cause that would be the whole point in a story.

but in the actual game world we will always be good and our decisions will always be perceived as the right ones as that's what the game is about.

Except as I believe stated earlier if you found objection to how the story let Venat off with as worse of crimes as her enemies the whole "You are a good hero" falls kind of flat and makes it very hard to continue with the patch content that seems to not want to let the topic die in Pandemonium and Myths. My character doesn't really feel like who she was in previous expansions anymore because of the way the game glossed over Venat's actions and has been slowly taking away the more serious choices in conversation for more humorous ones. To me a lot of the modern patch content writing has made my character feel severely out of character and as if she lost several braincells sometime before Endwalker. Again that is my own view on it at least, the game no longer feels like it is taking as great of care with the serious implications of it's story and that is reflected in the writing and presentation of the characters.

[kinslayer-]

HW and SHB were my favorite expac but i wish FFXIV more moments like these:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlqC...nel=AshuraSama
If you don't wanna click it, it's the moment when Varis meet with the Eorzean Alliance leaders

[aveyond-dreams]

HW and SHB were my favorite expac but i wish FFXIV more moments like these:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlqC...nel=AshuraSama
If you don't wanna click it, it's the moment when Varis meet with the Eorzean Alliance leaders

This was actually one of my favorite scenes in the entire game, the moment when Eorzean hypocrisy is finally called out. I don't understand how anyone would be ok with going from this to High School manga AU beach episode type writing, it just isn't acceptable and feels like too much of a bait and switch to be perfectly honest. Anyone expecting a proper Final Fantasy story may not have their wishes realized by Dawntrail.

[Renathras]

...

Okay, I'm just done with you and your bad faith.

You can't say someone's in bad faith when they've engaged with people in good faith and posted in such and you have not. When you're having to go back literally years to find things to rag them over. Tell me, if I went back to every post you've made for 2 years, do you not think I could find examples of you acting in poor form? The difference is, I'm not fool enough, or bad faith enough, to do it.

You're trying to shut down people offering their own feedback, engaging in blatant double standards, rampant bad faith, and refusing to engage on the topic, trying instead to disparage people who disagree with you.

"as to why certain posters never seem to address the actual points being raised and instead resort to either personal attacks or go off on irrelevant tangents unrelated to the subject being discussed"

You mean the very thing you're doing right now?

Be better.

[Vyrerus]

the problem is we are the good guys that is the story everything we do is good, heck when we became the warrior of darkness we stayed the good guy even though the ones before us were bad guys.

people aren't playing to be bad guys so anyone who wants to be the bad guy will always be unhappy.

You should do the Dark Knight questline sometime, and really pay attention to it when you do.

Our WoL is supposed to and does have an inner turmoil because they know deep down they are not always making the morally upstanding choice. They kill people with incredible violence rather often, in fact, and they feel extreme amounts of guilt.

This buried feeling externalizes itself during the DRK quest line, and the WoL's inner monologue is that their success in life is as a king whose throne is made of the bones of everyone who's stood in their way. They serve others to slay others. It's pretty dark.

And as Theodric has pointed out myriad times before, this is the kind of writing the game used to not shy away from. It used to bring real think pieces to the table. Ilberd is a great example. Raubahn standing over the spot Ilberd died in, ruminating on his own life vs. Ilberd's is a great example.

The story used to have stakes. It used to be a struggle. There were costs to saving the world. There were costs to do the right thing. Look at Papalymo. Look at Louisoix. Look at Thancred in ARR. By taking the path of saviors and heroes, they paid dearly.

Every cost to the heroes on our journey was referenced in Endwalker. And almost all of them were as old as Heavensward.


We're not asking to be the bad guys. We're asking to not be an unstoppable, morally supreme killing machine. We're asking for the cast and story to stop being woobiefied.