The 2nd job in Dawntrails should be....

[Nebelheim]

Is this the first Final Fantasy game you've ever played? That's not how Final Fantasy works! That's never been how Final Fantasy works!

FF11 had the job/sub job system where subjobs are half the level of the main job and lets you use certain traits and abilities of that subjob. And the recent master level system in ff11 further increases subjob levels adding even more abilities from the subjob plus the job point and merit system. While we don't have skill trees like other mmos each final fantasy had it's own takes on how combat and jobs played.

[UkcsAlias]

Of course, one could argue that skill trees or other decisions around one’s job don’t inherently need to be completely unbalanced. But that would require them putting actual work into the game, which apparently is just too much now lol

Skill trees in far too many games gave more issues than they solved. Especialy when you have to cooperate.

The problem is that a lot of people see certain builds as optimal, and no matter what you do, deviating from that is only going to hurt your own experience (guess who they will blame). Even very simple skill trees (as blizzard even tried in heroes of the storm) in most cases just dont work. 1 build will dominate, or the builds will all be very stale and depend on the enemy (and against that, its a fixed path again).

For games like diablo, which are single player, it doesnt hurt since you dont hinder teammates. This makes them capable of going a lot further and give them even some strange options. And yes, this sometimes means broken effects, but that is why skill trees in single player games simply end up being better.

It was a good choise to simply have none, as in most cases they arent relevant at all, or only changes when a new bossfight is released, and then is purely adjusted for that. Its very dull as players are simply good at optimizing fun out of it.

And this is where PvP actualy shines, as that is a situation in which you can (and usualy must) adapt towards the enemy, If they choose something strange to counter you, you sometimes must follow and counter them again. But yeah, usualy this still means just a binary choice system (the main option, or a counter specific one).

[RitsukoSonoda]

Skill trees in far too many games gave more issues than they solved. Especialy when you have to cooperate.

The problem is that a lot of people see certain builds as optimal, and no matter what you do, deviating from that is only going to hurt your own experience (guess who they will blame). Even very simple skill trees (as blizzard even tried in heroes of the storm) in most cases just dont work. 1 build will dominate, or the builds will all be very stale and depend on the enemy (and against that, its a fixed path again).

For games like diablo, which are single player, it doesnt hurt since you dont hinder teammates. This makes them capable of going a lot further and give them even some strange options. And yes, this sometimes means broken effects, but that is why skill trees in single player games simply end up being better.

It was a good choise to simply have none, as in most cases they arent relevant at all, or only changes when a new bossfight is released, and then is purely adjusted for that. Its very dull as players are simply good at optimizing fun out of it.

And this is where PvP actualy shines, as that is a situation in which you can (and usualy must) adapt towards the enemy, If they choose something strange to counter you, you sometimes must follow and counter them again. But yeah, usualy this still means just a binary choice system (the main option, or a counter specific one).

Actually, Metas are a player base problem, not a developer one. It's players that come up with them then essentially go around telling people their fun, enjoyment, and immersion are no longer allowed and that everyone must adhere to the spreadsheet.

However given that CBU3 has been essentially stripping and homogenizing jobs to try and support the "raid meta", at the detriment of everyone else, I don't see them making anything worthwhile using skill trees.